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Re:Design flaw behind MacBook Pro’s “stage light” effect by slimsag on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @11:25AM (#18969406)
What I don't get is why not just replace the headphone jack with a smaller one? e.g. a 1.5mm one?
Re:Design flaw behind MacBook Pro’s “stage light” effect by tivert on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @11:30AM (#18969458)
> What I don't get is why not just replace the headphone jack with a smaller one? e.g. a 1.5mm one?

Before the iPhone, traditional cell phones already had smaller headphone jacks: a 2.5mm one was pretty standard. One of the innovative things the iPhone did was replace the smaller port with a standard 3.5mm jack, which allowed people to use regular (potentially high-quality) 3.5mm headphones with it, rather than a crappy 2.5mm headset. The decision eliminated pointless proprietary-ness to integrate with a more vibrant ecosystem.

Job's decision on the iMac to embrace USB and drop the Mac's proprietary ports could be seen in a similar light.

I wish those kinds of decisions were the ones present-day Apple decided to cargo-cult.

Re:Design flaw behind MacBook Pro’s “stage light” effect by da_chicken on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @12:12PM (#18969932)
Yeah, but the EU has been trying to drag the same Apple kicking and screaming into using a common connector for phone chargers since at least 2011. The iPhone XS and XR still use the Lightning connector.
Re:Design flaw behind MacBook Pro’s “stage light” effect by detaro on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @12:15PM (#18969977)
AFAIK the wording of the EU targets in the end was mostly about the charger, and shipping a USB charger and a USB-to-iDevice cable was tolerated as a solution.
Re:Design flaw behind MacBook Pro’s “stage light” effect by badwolf on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @03:41PM (#18972228)
With the latest iPad Pro using USB-C (as well as macbooks) makes me think this will be happening soon (fingers crossed)
Re:Design flaw behind MacBook Pro’s “stage light” effect by penagwin on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @05:11PM (#18973117)
I work in phone repair, and I have to say the lightning connector is superior to usb c in durability. 9/10 times a phone comes in "because it's not charging" there's dirt in the port, some tweezers and they're on their way.

Whenever a USB port is involved, it's usually smashed and requires soldering to fix. Given that most modern phones have AMOLED screens, and those cost 200$+ just for our store to buy the part, and that many phones require you to remove the screen to get to the charging port.... Well you see where this is going.

Re:Design flaw behind MacBook Pro’s “stage light” effect by int_19h on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @07:29PM (#18974442)
If I remember correctly, USB-C and Lightning have the same guaranteed insertion cycles.
Re:Design flaw behind MacBook Pro’s “stage light” effect by megy on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @05:12PM (#18973125)
How quick you forget, there were a lot of people complaining about the iMac dropping ports and using USB. If you want to see what it is look, look around at the people complaining these days about going all in on USB-C.
Re:Design flaw behind MacBook Pro’s “stage light” effect by npunt on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @07:49PM (#18974571)
Yep this is exactly the same. People complained about the new lightning connector in 2012 as well. The one difference is USB-C is more complex and some peripheral manufacturers haven't been building stuff to spec.
Re:Design flaw behind MacBook Pro’s “stage light” effect by npunt on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @07:48PM (#18974565)
The original iPhone used the 2.5mm jack and bundled a 2.5->3.5 adapter. The small jack sucked. A year later the iPhone 3G came out with the regular 3.5mm jack.
Re:Design flaw behind MacBook Pro’s “stage light” effect by jasode on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @01:21PM (#18970735)
>What I don't get is why not just replace the headphone jack with a smaller one?

The explanation that made sense to me mentioned 2 design constraints:

1) the jack surface-mounted to the PCB took up space that conflicted with an edge-to-edge LCD/OLED display. If you've ever disassembled an iPhone, you'll see that removing the home button and extending the backlight assembly to the bottom edge means the headphone jack has to go away.

2) waterproof phone. The traditional jack was always an entry point for water damage.

Apparently, Apple studied millions of phone users and determined that more people wanted waterproof phones with bigger edge-to-edge screens than the headphone jack.

Re:Design flaw behind MacBook Pro’s “stage light” effect by dragonwriter on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @01:23PM (#18970760)
> waterproof phone.

Samsung has no problem making waterproof phones with headphone jacks. I'm not sure why, if you can put a USB/Thunderbolt/whatever jack on a phone and still be waterproof a headphone jack is some an intractable problem.

Re:Design flaw behind MacBook Pro’s “stage light” effect by jasode on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @01:54PM (#18971133)
>waterproof a headphone jack is some an intractable problem.

The explanation (possibly inaccurate) I read was that the waterproof jacks were more expensive. I noticed the new Samsung A8s has copied Apple's decision to remove headphone jack. Sony also removed the headphone jack. There seems to be an unavoidable engineering+cost motivation that causes multiple companies to remove that jack. Is it the edge-to-hedge screen? extra space for the haptic feedback? Better battery life because it doesn't feed the analog circuitry for that 3.5mm jack? I don't know.

Re:Design flaw behind MacBook Pro’s “stage light” effect by dragonwriter on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @02:42PM (#18971659)
> I noticed the new Samsung A8s has copied Apple's decision to remove headphone jack.

Sure, and there are perennial rumors that real soon now that will be reflected on flagships (first the S10, but then that faded, now the rumor is either the Note 10 or S11.)

> There seems to be an unavoidable engineering+cost motivation that multiple companies (including Sony) to remove that jack.

Well, yeah, of course, if nothing else, it takes space that could be used for something else. The Samsung Note 10 rumor centers around trading it for a bigger battery, for instance. Obviously, it's not a trade-off free choice, and what it's traded for may not be the same between different manufacturers that decide to axe it. (The same with SD card slots, which lots of manufacturers have done—even Samsung several flagship generations back, though they reversed.)

Re:Design flaw behind MacBook Pro’s “stage light” effect by FireBeyond on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @02:13PM (#18971338)
Apple certainly isn't hurting for profits, in general or on a per-unit basis. Fobbing it off as "Your iPhone would cost $1.08 more, so we're looking out for you!" is just Apple spinning it the way they want.
Re:Design flaw behind MacBook Pro’s “stage light” effect by shadowoflight on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @11:40AM (#18969538)
1.5mm is way too thin for a consumer-aimed cord standard. I can imagine the headlines for "SnapGate" already...
Re:Design flaw behind MacBook Pro’s “stage light” effect by komali2 on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @11:30AM (#18969456)
That would almost certainly require a dongle in all use cases anyway...
Re:Design flaw behind MacBook Pro’s “stage light” effect by ascagnel_ on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @11:56AM (#18969725)
I'd love to see a headphone jack standard (maybe based on on USB-C?) that's digital or analog and doesn't short whenever you plug/unplug stuff.
Re:Design flaw behind MacBook Pro’s “stage light” effect by least on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @12:47PM (#18970372)
At some point through the chain, you have to have a change from a digital source (the music file on your computer) to an analog signal (that is pushing audio out of your headphones). If you are changing the headphone jack standard on the headphone end (changing it to a usb-c jack, for example) would simply be pushing the DAC into the headphone. Not only would this needlessly increase costs, it'd also remove the flexibility.

I personally think that more headphones should have the threaded 3.5mm jack on which you can adapt either the 1/4" jack or say, a usb-c or lightning adapter. This would effectively make it a permanent addition to your headphones without having to keep track of a separate dongle.

Re:Design flaw behind MacBook Pro’s “stage light” effect by bradknowles on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @12:54AM (#18975983)
The lightning port would be ideal for that, except it’s proprietary.
Re:Design flaw behind MacBook Pro’s “stage light” effect by cptskippy on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @11:29AM (#18969452)
Where are those sweet sweet licensing fees they enjoyed from the proprietary connectors?
Re:Design flaw behind MacBook Pro’s “stage light” effect by chris_wot on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @11:37AM (#18969506)
Kind of misses the point. I'd rather like to charge and use my earphones at the same time. It's not an unobvious use case!
Re:Design flaw behind MacBook Pro’s “stage light” effect by cptskippy on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @11:39AM (#18969530)
Just wait, the next iPhone will be symmetrical with a notch and a lightning connector on each side.
Re:Design flaw behind MacBook Pro’s “stage light” effect by dangus on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @04:11PM (#18972514)
And the solution already exists within the product: wireless charging.
Re:Design flaw behind MacBook Pro’s “stage light” effect by dubya on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @02:24PM (#18971463)
There are a few adapters that do audio out and lightning in for charging. Apple makes (made?) a dock that was similar. They all have pretty bad reviews unfortunately. USB-C and Android seem to have the same lack of solutions.

I was looking for one because one of our cars has no bluetooth, and the other has bluetooth that won't talk to any recent iPhone, and my iphone 5S is getting flaky. Wish I hadn't missed the SE over the weekend.