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Re:MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license by pilif on Wednesday January 16, 2019 @06:55AM (#18920047)
> The installation instructions I've always followed for MongoDB start with importing a key, and adding their official repo to my source list.

Going with the maintainer's repo means that you trust the maintainer with providing security updates for the version you have installed or you trust them with providing a useable upgrade path.

If you go with a distro package, you will get both the benefits of security updates for the lifetime of the OS itself and the benefits of the underlying software not changing.

Of course it also means that you don't get new features for the lifetime of the OS.

So depending on your target usage of MongoDB, you either would want to go with the OS packages (if MongoDB is just a dependency of a dependency and you don't really care about its functionality aside of it being there) or with the vendor packages (if you're directly depending on MongoDB and you're willing to keep up to date with feature releases).

But even then, sometimes a vendor's official response to a security problem is "run apt-get upgrade to update to the latest major release" at a time when you really don't have the time to read the release notes and adopt your software to the changes in the new version.

Other vendors still provide maintenance for older releases, so it really depends on the vendor, whereas if you go with the OS packages, none of this matters.

Also, in this particular case, there's also the licensing issue to consider. I don't know whether it's safe for a company offering some service and/or application over the web to use current versions of MongoDB without paying for a license.

Re:MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license by Thaxll on Wednesday January 16, 2019 @08:46AM (#18920746)
Any serious deployment know that one should never deploy mysql / mongodb / postgress with the default maintainer repo.
Re:MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license by nnq on Wednesday January 16, 2019 @02:44PM (#18924298)
Serious: WHY?
Re:MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license by Thaxll on Wednesday January 16, 2019 @04:53PM (#18925788)
It's either not in the base repo / unmaintained quickly. I remember running MySQL on Debian / CentOS couple of years ago it was a joke how old the versions were.

You should always use the official repo ( with provided RPM / deb ) for that kind of app.

Example for CentOS 7.x:

yum info mysql-connector-java.noarch

Name : mysql-connector-java Arch : noarch Epoch : 1 Version : 5.1.25 Release : 3.el7 Size : 1.3 M Repo : base/7/x86_64 Summary : Official JDBC driver for MySQL

Quick look at when was this released: https://dev.mysql.com/doc/relnotes/connector-j/5.1/en/news-5...

(2013-05-01) Almost 6 years old.

Latest official version for 5.1.x was released 5 month ago: Changes in MySQL Connector/J 5.1.47 (2018-08-17)

Re:MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license by diminoten on Wednesday January 16, 2019 @11:07AM (#18921999)
Yeah but the point is, from a practical standpoint, nothing has changed. You were doing that before if you were using MongoDB + RHEL, so you'll still be doing that now.
Re:MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license by pilif on Wednesday January 16, 2019 @01:47PM (#18923676)
No. Before I could use the OS built-in MongoDB and get 10 years worth of security update for that version.

Now I need to fetch the version packaged by MongoDB of which I don’t know the release cycles and years of included support.

Plus, it’s an additional subscription cost and per-server license.

Re:MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license by merlynn on Wednesday January 16, 2019 @02:15PM (#18923995)
Michael from MongoDB here. Are you assuming RedHat is patching MongoDB at a rate more frequently than MongoDB itself - not the case. Also, there is NO additional cost per-server-license for MongoDB Community. You should know that you can simply subscribe to the latest version (as well as older versions) of maintained packages for various os's and distributions... and these are available at no charge. More information: https://docs.mongodb.com/manual/tutorial/install-mongodb-on-...
Re:MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license by diminoten on Wednesday January 16, 2019 @04:55PM (#18925817)
Could? Yes. Did you? Probably not.

It's not how MongoDB teaches: https://docs.mongodb.com/manual/tutorial/install-mongodb-on-...

And it's a blatant lie to say you don't know the supportability of MongoDB, as they publish it directly on their site: https://www.mongodb.com/support-policy

This means nothing, practically. It's grandstanding, and it's annoying. Stop.

Re:MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license by iqy on Wednesday January 16, 2019 @07:30AM (#18920220)
>Going with the maintainer's repo means that you trust the maintainer with providing security updates for the version you have installed or you trust them with providing a useable upgrade path.

Why should that be a problem if you use the official repo, handled by MongoDB themselves?

Re:MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license by pilif on Wednesday January 16, 2019 @07:41AM (#18920297)
Because as I said later in my post, sometimes a vendor's response to a security issue is "please update to the latest major release".

Let's say you're using version 1.1 of some software and you're hit by a remotely exploitable unauthenticated RCE.

You want to patch it, but the vendor says that the only fix is to update to 2.0.

How quickly can you adjust your software to work with that major release that might contain non-backwards compatible changes? Are you going to be quicker than the time it takes malware authors to write bots to hit that RCE?

There's also a second example which is automated updates: Our infrastructure automatically applies OS package updates via `apt-get`.

Thanks to Debian only ever updating packages for security reasons and only very rarely shipping new bugs, this is an actually workable practice.

But once you start adding 3rd party vendors who, for example, believe that once puppet 4 is released it's totally safe to just publish puppet 4 as a replacement of puppet 3 previously in the 3rd party repo, this becomes a very dangerous practice.

Re:MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license by chrisseaton on Wednesday January 16, 2019 @07:59AM (#18920394)
How does this work? How are RedHat able to reach into any of the thousands of projects in their repository and fix bugs and vulnerabilities? How do they have people on staff who understand all those codebases and algorithms?

Do RedHat support engineers get tickets like 'bug in the energy minimisation algorithm of GraphViz - go in, learn that field of computer science, and fix it'?

Re:MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license by paulryanrogers on Wednesday January 16, 2019 @08:10AM (#18920493)
IIRC Redhat is a downstream consumer of many projects. And they have their own repositories and format (RPM). So yes, they do fix bugs in their copies and employee people who know, or can learn, the critical packages.

Hopefully they still send patches upstream to the original projects.

Re:MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license by bdavis__ on Wednesday January 16, 2019 @08:07AM (#18920463)
Yes, that is exactly how it works. Provided the bug reporter has a support contract and enough clout.
Re:MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license by quantummkv on Wednesday January 16, 2019 @08:06AM (#18920460)
It is the upstream vendor that issues fixes. What RedHat does is that it takes the commits that fix the bug and merge them into their forks and release.
Re:MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license by chrisseaton on Wednesday January 16, 2019 @09:37AM (#18921155)
> It is the upstream vendor that issues fixes.

So if you have a bug in a RedHat package, and you're paying $100k a year RedHat support contract, all they really do is open a GH issue with the upstream to ask them to fix it? And then you just wait hoping they fix it so RedHat can cherry pick it?

Re:MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license by myWindoonn on Wednesday January 16, 2019 @09:48AM (#18921251)
We don't know. I'm going to tell you a short story, though.

Rumor has it that KMS[1] was developed entirely because a deep-pocketed RH customer was annoyed that their workstations showed a fraction of a second of the boot/init log, and wanted a more seamlessly-graphical boot.

This feature was not universally welcomed by the kernel community. It excluded BSD cousins and frustrated nVidia and AMD/ATI. I remember standing next to the DRM/KMS maintainer while Linus yelled at us.

RH absolutely will interact with upstream on behalf of their customers. They don't just "open a GH issue"; they present designs, code, rationale, and evidence to upstream. I wonder whether this is something that Oracle does, but it doesn't sound like it.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Rendering_Manager#Kerne...

Re:MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license by throwaway2048 on Wednesday January 16, 2019 @10:39AM (#18921715)
Backporting fixes (and fixes ONLY, not new features, and new bugs, with new incompatabilities) onto an older version of software that comes in RHEL is not trivial.
Re:MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license by bubblethink on Wednesday January 16, 2019 @08:07AM (#18920468)
They have the core repo and other less/un-supported repos/channels. They'll support everything in the main repo.
Re:MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license by geofft on Wednesday January 16, 2019 @07:48AM (#18920328)
It's a matter of scaling. If your job is "I want to run MongoDB," then it makes sense to track MongoDB's repo. If your job is "I want to run 100 different applications," then tracking 100 upstream repos (and dealing with their usually 80%-competent jobs of handling library dependencies, etc.) is no fun.

I happen to be in the latter position. Developers at both my employer and my previous employers generally cannot just install whatever they want, mostly for longevity/support reasons (at my current employer there's a way for developers to import outside code into the monorepo, which means just this week I'm cleaning up Node 0.10 and Go 1.3 from the monorepo...). They go through a team that builds them a system they can use. And that team strongly prefers to get software from our Linux distro than from third parties, because every single team has their own preferred third parties to get software from.

I do agree that for a shop that's running a single big web application with Mongo as the backend, they're probably installing it from upstream (and happier with that), but that's not the only use case.

Re:MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license by sascha_sl on Wednesday January 16, 2019 @07:34AM (#18920253)
because a lot of people have support contracts with red hat

now they'll be forced to also have one with mongodb (if their deployment is critical enough to already have red hat support they'll probably just caugh up the money)