News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
[dead]
Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by sk5t on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @12:25PM (#18912886)
The monarch is simply one of the more noticeable affected species. Before long it may be apparent that (micro)plastics and emissions have royally screwed the organisms and systems underlying everything else.
Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by EGreg on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @12:55PM (#18913228)
But water bottles are so convenient eh?
Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by unknownkadath on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @12:12PM (#18912743)
Obviously, butterflies are the only species having a problem and everything's fine.
Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by francisofascii on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @12:14PM (#18912778)
Because humans are causing the extinction and more importantly have the intellect/ability to prevent it. The problem is more systemic. This happens to be a specific case.
Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by pvaldes on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @12:11PM (#18912738)
> Why should we care about ... X?

Because we can.

Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by ak39 on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @12:51PM (#18913178)
Not just that but mostly because we (humans) are the cause of their disappearance. So we ought to care.
Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by 300bps on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @01:27PM (#18913526)
It’s not just the monarch butterfly. Entire ecosystems are collapsing throughout the world as insects disappear followed by the birds that eat them and on and on.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/2018/10/15/hyperalarm...

Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by butterfi on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @01:33PM (#18913578)
I was just commenting the other day about when I was a kid, you'd drive somewhere in your car and you'd have to scrape the bugs off your windshield. I drove about 700 miles a few weeks and not one bug. Something is wrong.
Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by glenneroo on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @02:15PM (#18913963)
To support your anecdote, I've seen this comment posted by a number of users the last few months in relation to environmental-destructive posts. And to add my own data point, I too, have noticed the same as you on road trips through various parts of western US, although I always just thought I was just crazy. I can't say as of when exactly, but I really started noticing the last 3-4 years. Even hiking around where insects used to be numerous on warmer days, sometimes annoying in-your-face at every turn, seem to be nearly void of creatures.
Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by close04 on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @12:10PM (#18912730)
Outside of massive global extinction events is there any record of extinction on the same scale as the one brought on by the human species?

Most records show that as soon as humans set foot in an environment the local species were decimated one way or another. And I'm not assigning blame exclusively to modern humans, it's been happening since the dawn of humanity.

Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by astrodust on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @01:11PM (#18913379)
Maybe when a collision with a planetoid turned half the planet inside out and in the process created the moon, but other than that, no.

We've created a new geological age. If there's intelligent life on the planet a million years from now they will look back and go what the fuck.

Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by ams6110 on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @01:53PM (#18913759)
Any invasive species does the same thing to a new environment. Zebra mussels, kudzu vine, etc.
Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by close04 on Wednesday January 16, 2019 @03:58AM (#18919273)
Sure but how many other species managed to invade every single other environment like humans managed? Not too many, which is why our impact is overexpressed.
[dead]
Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by titzer on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @12:27PM (#18912913)
Because it looks like we are in the early stages of a mass extinction event caused by us. The extinction rate today is 100 to 1000 times higher than geological norms.

Loss of biodiversity (i.e. individual species dying out) makes the entire system less stable, since remaining species are less adapted to the environment. In the extreme, even if the individuals of a species, e.g. a particular breed of ant are displaced by another species, the system moves closer to a monoculture, which is prone to population shocks and other chaotic behavior.

Ultimately, all of Earth's ecosystems are connected through a vastly complicated food web. Even us. We've been blowing holes in that food web, roasting it, setting it fire, chopping off limbs, eradicating the places where it grows, etc.

This is actually very, very bad.

Asking questions is fine! It's great. It's how we learn. But cavalier comments like the OP are downvoted not because they are asking serious questions, but for stinking of militant ignorance.

Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by babarock on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @12:45PM (#18913125)
Thank you for the reasonable answer.

Still, I find no harm in asking "what is it about this species that makes them stand out?" I was expecting to get factual answers along the lines of "these butterflies are tied to this specific other species and we know that this could snowball into X, Y, Z". I would've liked to hear something like this instead of the other patronizing answers and the accusative tone.

> Asking questions is fine! It's great. It's how we learn. But cavalier comments like the OP are downvoted not because they are asking serious questions, but for stinking of militant ignorance.

I'm getting downvoted just like OP. Am I being cavalier too?

I'm more concerned about our inability to have a discussion without assigning nefarious implicit meaning to questions. I realize that denying human impact on the environment is a reality in US politics. I'm not from the US. I don't understand much of these things.

If you don't mind me asking, what exactly in OP's question made it stink of militant ignorance? Am I displaying the same ignorance as well? Or am I only expected to perpetuate the outrage and never question anything.

For instance can I ask where this comes from "The extinction rate today is 100 to 1000 times higher than geological norms." or will it sound like I'm denying all human impact on the planet?

Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by harlanlewis on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @12:52PM (#18913194)
Re "100 to 1000 times" - this is at the end of the first paragraph of Wikipedia's Holocene extinction page, with multiple citations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction
Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by dmitriid on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @01:05PM (#18913327)
> Still, I find no harm in asking "what is it about this species that makes them stand out?"

Because it's a symptom of a much larger problem. Namely, collapse of insects in general: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jan/15/insect-c...

Unless you've been living under a rock for the past few years, there've been multiple reported rapid declines across multiple species, not just "this species that for some reason stands out". Some species are naturally more studied than others (because of availability, accessibility, observability etc.), and when they collapse, it's can be immediately observed.

Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by civilitty on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @04:09PM (#18915302)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_species

Robert Paine developed the theory when he went to a bunch of tide pools and picked out some of their starfish. What he found was that the ecosystems (isolated tide pools) where he removed all of the starfish rapidly collapsed. It turns out that the starfish were critical to controlling the population of another animal that was preying on herbivores. When the starfish disappeared, its prey grew out of control and ate all the herbivores. This caused seaweed and other plants to grow out of control, exhausting several key resources faster than the ecosystem could naturally replenish them, until the tide pool became a deadzone.

Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by moseandre on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @01:02PM (#18913290)
Monarchs have a multi-generation migration. That is beautiful and mysterious.
Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by tejohnso on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @12:56PM (#18913234)
I don't know that this specifically includes the 100 to 1000 times figure, but it speaks of "biological annihilation".

> This “biological annihilation” underlines the seriousness for humanity of Earth’s ongoing sixth mass extinction event.

https://www.pnas.org/content/114/30/E6089.full?ftag=MSF0951a...

Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by sosuke on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @01:00PM (#18913267)
I had to dig for it but this a study that was referenced in articles mentioning the 100 to 1000 times higher statistics. http://science.sciencemag.org/content/344/6187/1246752
Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by hendryau on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @01:14PM (#18913412)
We are not in the early stages anymore.
Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by empath75 on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @01:34PM (#18913599)
Geologically we are.
Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by harlanlewis on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @12:36PM (#18913013)
The monarch is pretty and many people have a personal connection to it (either through media or personal experience), which makes it an effective species for drawing attention to the broader issue of an ongoing global extinction event in which extinction rates are far higher than would be expected without human activity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction

Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by mikestew on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @02:19PM (#18914009)
I'm just guessing here, as one who did not join the downvote brigade, is that everyone else sees the house burning down around them, with the ceiling joists beginning to collapse, while someone walks up and says, "what's the big deal? Fires happen all the time. Sometimes even nature causes the fire!"

The California Monarch is the proverbial (and perhaps almost literal) canary in a coal mine. When the canary dies, sad though that might be, that is not the tragic event. No, the real tragedy is yet to come (when the mine blows, or you all suffocate on methane).

So though your question might be honest, it is likely to cause one to wonder, "where the hell have you been for the last ten years?" and irresponsibly hit the down button.

Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by amadeusw on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @12:43PM (#18913093)
I wish I had an answer to this question, too. It boils my blood when my uncle says to stop fussing, species that don't adapt go away daily. I tell him they are indicator species for the general health of the ecosystem. I make an intelligent guess that these issues will percolate up the food chain and ultimately affect humans, but I don't have any solid answer.
Re:California’s Monarch Butterfly Population Hits Record Low by kamaal on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @12:59PM (#18913263)
>>Millions of species are extinct daily. Why does this one matter?

Its one things for a species to go extinct unable to evolve to the ecosystem. Its a totally different thing for a perfectly evolved species well integrated into an ecosystems life cycle to be eliminated by Human intervention.

We don't completely understand the effects of such mass extinctions going due to human actions. Mostly they are going to be bad.

Thing of this you need a range of insect species for pollination. Not just to product food, but even to maintain the existing population of trees. If you can't product food, or if trees don't grow. Eventually it will be our turn to go extinct, or at least suffer huge losses in population.