On the idea of a 2nd class civilian:

Would that include level of support? If something goes wrong in any Google product for me, I am almost certainly SOL. If my scenario doesn't fall under automated support or is something that requires human logic/cognition, there is effectively no support. It's either post on Twitter and hope someone from Google reads it (P = < 0.0000000005) or off to call the credit card company for a chargeback and pray that Google does not decide to ban my entire account for it.

If something goes wrong in any Apple product, the support ranges from stellar to acceptable, regardless of if I'm using Windows or MacOS.

So in that regard, I would rather be a 2nd class Apple civilian than Google's favourite civilian.

No, in the products directly. Eg. Bad ux for Windows, not allowing innovation on browsers and force developers creating an app instead of a html site, no usb-c, ... That's what i mean with "second class civilian" when you don't have/want everything from Apple.

I actually love the Chromecast integration ( it works with everything) and Google Docs (any browser), which seems to be more on topic.

There's a big difference between paying the Apple premium and using free/cheap products of Google though. Didn't had any issues with enterprise support in the past. Can't say anything about the Pixel line-up.

Don't take my word for it, here's a comment from someone else in this thread:

> I still think the nicest media player I used on Windows post-iTunes 7 was a music playing gadget from Google in my Google Desktop sidebar.

I am a long-standing Mac user, entirely in the Apple ecosystem, and gave you an upvote, because I do remember iTunes on Windows and it was always kind of a trash fire. :)

Having said that, though, the moves Apple is making right now are almost certainly about laying the groundwork for their new video service, which they are absolutely going to be pitching to people who aren't in the current Apple system -- which means they need to have player apps on other platforms, TVs, Roku, wherever they can get it.

iTunes wasn’t always a trash fire on Windows. iTunes 7 on Windows was definitely a trash fire that bundled in some version of Apple Software Update but I couldn’t tell you if the fire ever got put out because I bought my first MacBook shortly after and moved my whole library to it. I do remember the hellishly long update process from 6 to 7. I think I started it, went through the prompts and then crossed the street to the supermarket for a few minutes figuring it would be done by the time I got back. Took another two hours after my return for the process to finish.

To be fair, I still kept my PC around for some stuff and I remember every version of Windows Media Player I tried (9 to 11) being something of a trash fire in its own right, so in a sense, it was with iTunes 7+ that Apple first conformed to the platform standard. I still think the nicest media player I used on Windows post-iTunes 7 was a music playing gadget from Google in my Google Desktop sidebar.

I have iTunes for windows. It's still a piece of junk. It has a hard time communicating with iDevice and has a lousy interface for managing playlists and purchases.

Too bad there doesn't seem to be better, especially for someone completely uninterested in any kind of streaming service. (among other things, there seems to be no alternative for purchases .... or very few. Bandcamp I suppose)

Well, your comment feels negative and not balanced. I think readers on HN like balanced views. I guess you knew ;-)

PS: I do

Not all comments can be positive, didn't knew this was a requirement. I hope you don't read the comments when Google has there next privacy related topic...

My view was balanced, based on experience of the past.

I had no Apple warranty/support when there seemed to be a iPod hard drive bug.

iTunes was a requirement for iPhone and hell. My desktop was no Apple, I felt like a second class citizen.

Ps. You didn't argue why my comment was false. I like second opinions. Which is why we are here, seeing another perspective or learning something new.

I guess you knew :)

But perhaps I'm just here a bit longer than you ;)

I guess you are! ;-)

Sad to see your comment downvoted.

You'd think iOS device and Mac fans would understand well the sentiment of 'not wanting to be a second-class citizen'.

Frame the discussion around Material design in iOS apps, Electron apps vs native apps, and I'm sure all your downvoters would emphatically agree: no one wants to be a second-class citizen.