For me at least (speaking hypothetically, since I haven't tried this), that seems like it would fly in the face of "get your work done so you can play without it hanging over your head." And it means that (if I have a fairly hard work start time) I am watching the clock the whole time I'm using discretionary time, whereas doing it after work means I can just go until I'm tired, without really worrying about the clock.

The work will be there either way. So I can choose to work first and come home worn out from that and then try to do things I care about, or instead to do things I care about first, that don't wear me out, and carry a sense of satisfaction and accomplishment with me to work.

And, I mean, I'm not trying to finish a story before work - not from scratch, certainly. My current story is around 20k words right now, and it's somewhere between a quarter and a third done. I wouldn't get it done in one day if I had every minute to myself! And it'd be no good if I did. But if I can add a few hundred words, or a few dozen that cover a point that's been giving me trouble, or just a few pages of notes in my diary on where the plot's going to go at a given point - and I can do that in a morning - then that's enough.

I think that distinction between finishing and doing might make a difference here - if I thought about it in terms of the former, it'd only frustrate me because I'd run out of time. Thinking about it in the latter terms makes it a question of deciding and finding out how much progress I'll make today.

I don't know if that's how it works out for everyone, and it's anyone's guess whether it'll still work the same for me once I get an elliptical trainer into my apartment and start going ham on that every day. But this is how it's worked for me, thus far.

I'd like to put my hobbies and fun things first, but, I'm a little afraid that my performance at work would suffer, because I'd have less energy when showing up to work, especially at the end of the day. I already often find it hard to remain productive after 3-4PM. I'm worried that if I got up earlier and worked on hobbies before going to work, I'd have even less productive energy to dedicate to my job, and my performance would slide a bit.

I’ve overperformed throughout my entire career. That’s almost two decades now, and it’s already driven me into burnout once; I came back from that, but that was a long time ago, and I’m neither confident I can do so again nor willing to suffer through it again.

At this point I am absolutely ready to give less than all of myself to the job, and more to the things that bring me joy and give my life meaning. If that means overperforming less at work, and closer to par with what’s actually expected of me - if that means no longer giving 150% effort to my day job, and “merely” 100% instead - then I’m okay with that, and so, per relevant discussions, is my reporting chain.

If that changes - if it proves in practice that the company is unwilling to support a transition from the heading-for-burnout precedent I’ve set to a sustainable level of effort - then that’ll be a clear indication that this company is not worth keeping on as a customer of my labor, and I’ll replace it with a customer which is.

The tradeoffs are going to be different for everyone, of course, but I’m convinced the same model generally applies, at least for those of us who have a worthwhile product to sell in our labor. Given the enormous prevalence of impostor syndrome in our industry, I wouldn’t be surprised if the product you’re selling is more valuable than you’re in the habit of thinking.

And it’s also worth keeping in mind that every employer, with the best will in the world, still has a strong economic incentive to convince you to undervalue the product they’re buying from you. That incentive exists because they’re buying it from you, and want to do so as cheaply as possible. No judgment; it’s a business, that’s the game. But you’d be wise not to take their word for what your work is worth, and learn to play the other side of the game - because the better you are at the other side of the game, the closer you get to being paid what your work is worth.

> I can just go until I'm tired, without really worrying about the clock.

For me, that turns into "well shit it's 2am, guess I'll be short of sleep again".

> I am watching the clock the whole time I'm using discretionary time

Set an alarm on repeat.

I used to obsess about missing things all the time. Once I started making sure I didn't have to worry about missing things, my time is that much freer.

I work from home. I have an alarm for 10 minutes before the start and end of work. An alarm for 10 minutes before lunch time (I eat with the family, my wife stays at home with the kids). Pretty much eliminates all clock watching.

This is why being on 2nd shift doesn't work for me, and maybe 3rd shift as well. My entire day is wasted because I have to go into work in the afternoon when otherwise I'd be getting out of work in the afternoon. I simply cannot do anything productive, unproductive, or relaxing in my personal life with that schedule.

I've heard repeatedly if you have some side project you really care about, do it before work, not after.

That definitely works for me. I’ve tried to work on side projects after my daily job but I often got home drained and with zero will to code anything. Since then I started moving this time into my mornings, before work. It definitely feels short and like you’re on a time constrain more than the evenings, but I’ve made progress on my projects like this, bit by bit.

Same here. I believe this is due to will power depletion (plenty of studies conclude that will power is finite resource) and after our normal 9-5 drains away our will power, people have a heard time being self-motivated - very true for me at least.

Yeah, and if you use your will power before work, you run out of it earlier in the work day and you get less done at work.

Give more of my will power to myself or to someone else? Seems to be an easy answer.

It's also instrinsic motivation when you work on side projects. That is definitely harder to push after a full day at work.

At work, the motivating factors are different, and you have someone pushing you to get stuff done.

Sure, if the things you're doing before work require willpower to pursue. They don't have to be. And jriot's point in my sibling comment is in any case well made.

I do this and just front load my day to have the more demanding stuff in the morning with the less demanding in the afternoon. It works well for me and if anything I feel my productivity has increased.

The most productive I've ever been on side projects was when I had an hour long commute via public transport. It was a solid hour with few options for other activities and very little distractions. The ride home was a second hour but I was usually burnt out by then.

do you have a SO or kids? I ask because my experience is this doesn't work as well when you move past single responsibility. It tends (a) reduce discretionary time and (b) push it earlier or later

Exactly. Early morning routine becomes getting kids out of bed, dressed, fed, and off to school. If you're getting up before THAT to do your own things, it would need to be really early.

Casey Neistat has two kids and gets up at 4am to exercise before taking care of them. This video goes over his time management technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-Cvl3_CH2A

By his own reckoning he sleeps for under 5 hours every day. Maybe he's one of the vanishing few who can get by on that amount of sleep (you are not though, so don't try to emulate him), or maybe he's not listing naps he takes throughout the day, or maybe he's just setting himself up for a lifetime of health consequences from prolonged sleep deprivation.

Whichever it is, it's not exactly the sort of routine one should take too much inspiration from for one's own life.

One of the people in TFA gets up at 2-3am on Tu/W/Th... O_O

Yup - life becomes more complicated with kids especially. You get a schedule which works for a year or two, then school start times switch. Then your partner has to leave at 5.30am a couple of days for work shifts and you're on duty those days!

Currently managing most weeks Aikido twice a week 6:30-8:00 (I teach), and 1-3 runs per week with a buddy on a flexible schedule 6:45 - 7:30 start depending on getting kids off and being able to work at home a couple of days a week.

I first established this habit back when I was married, so I can attest that it’s compatible with at least some romantic relationships. Can’t speak to the problem of balancing discretionary time and parental responsibilities, other than to say “Good luck!”

It obviously depends on the kid, but they tend to sleep longer than adults anyways. Our 1 year olds sleep around 11-13 hours overnight. Our 4 year old sleeps around 11 hours overnight.