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Re:Letter from Tim Cook to Apple Investors by madeofpalk on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @07:23PM (#18811713)
> Of course there are other factors addressed in the letter, but this issue was notable enough to be included.
Re:Letter from Tim Cook to Apple Investors by criley2 on Thursday January 03, 2019 @08:54AM (#18815079)
This is a causation/correlation failure IMO

OP is attempting to place causation on the battery problem for the earnings miss or the valuation loss.

That is not supported by the evidence, which clearly shows that the primary cause had nothing to do with the Western market at all.

It's fair criticism, OP is discussing 5% of the problem and presenting it as if it's 100%.

Re:Letter from Tim Cook to Apple Investors by swish_bob on Thursday January 03, 2019 @10:30AM (#18815780)
OP did not say "mishandling batterygate screwed Apple's earnings", but instead pointed out that something that could have been better handled and would have cost significantly less was considered a big enough mistake to be mentioned.

OP not implying causation, they're calling something interesting out.

Re:Letter from Tim Cook to Apple Investors by criley2 on Thursday January 03, 2019 @11:16AM (#18816180)
I fundamentally disagree with your analysis, as OP helpfully listed their entire thinking out:

    > "It went something like this:" 
    > .... 
    >- Some people decide that they'll stick with their phone a bit ?longer than they otherwise would have, reducing iPhone sales.
    >- Apple misses their earnings target, likely costing them more in value than it would have cost them to address the root issue in the first place.
OP using a list format is implying a causative link between battery issues and earnings targets. OP even suggests that their value would be safe had they simply corrected the battery issue earlier.

It's an extremely clear post they made, IMO

Re:Letter from Tim Cook to Apple Investors by tomnipotent on Thursday January 03, 2019 @12:19PM (#18816862)
> a causative link between battery issues and earnings targets

There's is a causative link, which is why Apple included it in this report. How is it possible to miss that connection?

Re:Letter from Tim Cook to Apple Investors by abalone on Thursday January 03, 2019 @01:26PM (#18817614)
You’re misunderstanding the thread here. OP suggested batteries, a minor factor in the report, were the primary cause in the earnings drop. For whatever reason there are people who really badly want to believe this. swish_bob countered, inaccurately, that OP did not claim causation.

Now that we all can agree swish_bob is wrong, the problem remains that OP misrepresented the primacy of the factors stated in the report.

Re:Letter from Tim Cook to Apple Investors by tomnipotent on Thursday January 03, 2019 @02:54PM (#18818622)
> were the primary cause in the earnings drop.

No he didn't, stop making stuff up. Apple would not have bothered to mention the battery issue if it didn't have a material impact on their business.

Re:Letter from Tim Cook to Apple Investors by mike10010100 on Friday January 04, 2019 @05:27PM (#18828305)
Yes, he literally did. Right here:

> - Some people decide that they'll stick with their phone a bit longer than they otherwise would have, reducing iPhone sales.

> - Apple misses their earnings target, likely costing them more in value than it would have cost them to address the root issue in the first place.

There's an implicit "because of this" between the two bullet points.

Again, it's painting a problem that is 5% of the issue as if it's 100%.

China was the vast majority of this decline, as the earnings reports show.

I have no earthly idea why people are ignoring this fact so badly.

Re:Letter from Tim Cook to Apple Investors by tomnipotent on Saturday January 05, 2019 @07:45PM (#18835498)
> There's an implicit "because of this" between the two bullet points.

Not about this being the most significant factor. You've decided to infer that from the list - most of us didn't because he _explicitly_ says so in his last sentence. They also had influence over this particular issue, unlike the macroeconomics of China.

Re:Letter from Tim Cook to Apple Investors by mike10010100 on Monday January 07, 2019 @12:00AM (#18842897)
> Not about this being the most significant factor.

It absolutely is suggested, if not implicitly then by omission.

> They also had influence over this particular issue, unlike the macroeconomics of China.

Right, but the more it's discussed, the more it feels like people don't want to talk about the slowing economy in China.

Re:Letter from Tim Cook to Apple Investors by michaelcampbell on Thursday January 03, 2019 @02:30PM (#18818370)
> OP suggested batteries, a minor factor in the report, were the primary cause in the earnings drop.

I don't get that in the least little bit from what he wrote. Nothing in his post even references the earnings drop.

Re:Letter from Tim Cook to Apple Investors by abalone on Thursday January 03, 2019 @03:10PM (#18818795)
> Nothing in his post even references the earnings drop.

“- Some people decide that they'll stick with their phone a bit longer...

- Apple misses their earnings target”

Direct quote.

Re:Letter from Tim Cook to Apple Investors by mike10010100 on Friday January 04, 2019 @05:28PM (#18828316)
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills considering how many people are completely ignoring the very obvious connotation here. It's like they're willfully ignoring the Chinese market issue entirely.
Re:Letter from Tim Cook to Apple Investors by abalone on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @08:17PM (#18812002)
Despite noting that the comment still implies that battery replacements were the dominant factor why “Apple misses their earnings target.” This is an invalid logical leap in its step by step reasoning.
Re:Letter from Tim Cook to Apple Investors by tomnipotent on Thursday January 03, 2019 @12:23AM (#18813013)
> implies that battery replacements were the dominant factor why

No it doesn't, only that it was "notable enough".

Re:Letter from Tim Cook to Apple Investors by abalone on Thursday January 03, 2019 @01:25AM (#18813274)
Clearly that is not "only" what it says. It jumps directly from "stick with their phone a bit longer... reducing iPhone sales" to "Apple misses their earnings target, likely costing them more in value than it would have cost them to address the root issue." That is very clearly drawing a casual relationship between the two things, and underscores it by stating it "should be a lesson for more companies" on how to avoid such outcomes.

The last line is a dodge because, obviously, China's economy is actually the main culprit stated in the report. But I guess some people are going to hear what they want to hear.

Re:Letter from Tim Cook to Apple Investors by alien_ on Thursday January 03, 2019 @03:10AM (#18813611)
The recent devices are more overpriced than ever and getting over the limit of what ordinary people are willing to pay for a phone.

I have an iPhone 6s and my wife had a 6 and needed a new phone. We bought a new Xr but it was a small fortune, even though we're both working in IT and having good income. The phone is a brick and I saw lots of slicker Android phones costing half the price and providing a very similar if not better experience.

My next phone is very unlikely to be an iPhone.

Re:Letter from Tim Cook to Apple Investors by mike10010100 on Friday January 04, 2019 @05:24PM (#18828281)
What exactly does this have to do with the comment you're replying to?
Re:Letter from Tim Cook to Apple Investors by tomnipotent on Thursday January 03, 2019 @12:18PM (#18816845)
> But I guess some people are going to hear what they want to hear.

Like what you're doing with these replies and your focus on something the OP didn't say?

Re:Letter from Tim Cook to Apple Investors by abalone on Thursday January 03, 2019 @01:13PM (#18817464)
I’ve entirely focused on what the OP said using extensive direct quotes. Your reply invalid.
[dead]
Re:Letter from Tim Cook to Apple Investors by tozeur on Thursday January 03, 2019 @01:30AM (#18813297)
Please refrain from using ad hominem remarks on Hacker News.
Re:Letter from Tim Cook to Apple Investors by abalone on Thursday January 03, 2019 @01:28AM (#18813284)
First time I've been insulted for sounding too logical on a programmer forum.
Re:Letter from Tim Cook to Apple Investors by simonh on Thursday January 03, 2019 @04:13AM (#18813827)
Yes of course, but the narrative the OP constructed where this is the only cause mentioned is clearly a misrepresentation.