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Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by brobdingnagians on Tuesday January 01, 2019 @03:21PM (#18802082)
The problem is that they are corporate shills. There are quite a few things I wish the Democratic party would do that I'd support, and lots of them they did historically. Even if they were still actually pushing anti-war, freedom of speech, and related things then that would be fantastic, but lately they seem to tow the same line as the Republicans on those issues.
Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by SquishyPanda23 on Tuesday January 01, 2019 @04:19PM (#18802446)
> The problem is that they are corporate shills.

I really think the defining political problem of our age is campaign finance reform and to a lesser extent election reform.

Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by ende on Tuesday January 01, 2019 @05:13PM (#18802734)
I would reverse those. The hyper adversarial nature of our political environment is shaped by our electoral systems; specifically plurality voting, partisan primaries, and gerrymandered single member districts. Fixing those three things will go a long way towards restoring sanity to our politics.
Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by BurningFrog on Tuesday January 01, 2019 @06:09PM (#18802991)
> Fixing those three things will go a long way towards restoring sanity to our politics.

But didn't those three things exist when the sanity you want to restore prevailed?

Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by paulmd on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @02:54AM (#18804840)
The only points when "sanity prevailed" were when there was a clear Other to rally against and fight a war. The hyperpartisanship we're seeing is actually normal for the US.

The US was broken in the 1800s. It was broken in the 1820s-1840s with the fight over slavery. It was broken in the 1860s, and we had to fight a civil war to restore any sort of santy. It was broken in the 1880s after Restoration was rolled back. It was broken in 1900 with the rise of the Klan again. 1915 was WWI, in 1920 we were back to being broken. 1930s we were broken by depression and the fight against fascism, 1940s we had WW2. 1950s we had Korea, 1960s we were broken, 1970s we were broken, and that begun the decline of any sense of civility in the congress.

1980s we were completely broken, 1990s we were completely broken, 2000s we were completely broken, 2010s we were completely broken...

The lack of justice for Nixon broke any sense of normality left in the nation. And the Republicans nevertheless played off the idea that Nixon was somehow crucifed, and elected Reagan, then went on a witch-hunt against Clinton. Then they elected a historically bad president in Bush, started the longest wars in US history, and when people complained they crucified Obama in response. And then they elected the loudest finger-in-the-eye they could find in response.

The US has been somewhat broken for literally its entire existence but it has been actively unable to transact its internal business for about half of that... about half of that being in the last 50 years.

Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by rjf72 on Tuesday January 01, 2019 @11:51PM (#18804255)
I think there are two big issues there.

The first is softball and obvious. Things can work on a small scale and collapse on a large scale. We started with around 30,000 citizens per congressional district (and thus per representative). And there was a strong urging to push it lower by some. This number was envisioned as remaining as a constant, for if you dilute the power and "connection" of the average voter too much, you risk exposing yourself to politicians too far detached from their constituency which can breed tyranny, corruption, and so on. And indeed 30,000 is already pretty far up there. Today we have more than 700,000 citizens per congressional district.

The second is a more contentious issue, but perhaps even more relevant. Today we've become an increasingly divided and polarized society where nuance is increasingly a lost art. Democracy does not work in such situations. Iraq is an extreme example. Iraq is fundamentally broken up into three major groups - Shiite, Sunni, and Kurds. And these groups tend to be extremely intolerant of one another with members of each group generally adopting wholesale all views of their own group and only their own group. It just turns into a tyranny of the majority.

Somehow the United States has started trending towards this exact behavior. This wasn't always the case. While we may have had vice president engage in a duel to the death with a secretary of the treasury, these were personal conflicts. Today people are engaging more in group conflicts. Democracy works when people are willing to work together, not when they view politics as a team sport where the idea is for your side to "win" and the other side to "lose."

Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by BurningFrog on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @12:27AM (#18804371)
Well, Iraq never developed the traditions or culture or whatever the preconditions for a democracy are. One was imposed on them by a neither competent nor determined foreign occupation force.

The US has had that precondition for centuries, so if we were to lose it, it would be a very different case fro Iraq, who never had it.

I think the factor behind increased polarisation in the US and across the democratic world probably is this thing right here. The internet! People are now increasingly getting their news and information, and thereby their world view from "social media", not the traditional mass media of the last 2-3 centuries.

It's a huge sea change, and we're only seeing the beginning of it. So far it't looking kinda scary, but things will keep changing quickly, and I think we'll sort things out. We better :)

Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by stochastic_monk on Tuesday January 01, 2019 @04:23PM (#18802464)
Which is the primary aim of the new democratic house. I would not consider someone trying to limit corporate control of politics a corporate shill.
Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by jedmeyers on Tuesday January 01, 2019 @04:49PM (#18802605)
How about limiting political control of people, so corporations won’t try to control politics so much? Since so far “limiting corporate control of politics” looks more like gatekeeping: allowing some corporations to control while denying others.
Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by shmerl on Tuesday January 01, 2019 @04:49PM (#18802602)
Yet Larry Lessig was shut down the last time he tried bringing this into focus.
Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by lern_too_spel on Tuesday January 01, 2019 @06:10PM (#18802997)
The 2016 election? Both the Democratic front-runner and the nearest also-ran not only had campaign finance reform prominently in their platforms (each with a full page devoted to the issue on their websites) but also brought it up during the debates.

https://www.npr.org/2016/02/06/465781632/fact-check-clinton-...

Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by sidlls on Tuesday January 01, 2019 @04:59PM (#18802654)
The primary aim of the new democratic house is to continue in the same way under the same leadership as they have for the last 30 years. They're a conservative party who mainly want the same things as Republicans, but have somehow managed to bamboozle a whole new generation into thinking they're the party of civil rights, egalitarianism, labor, etc. They're about as interested in campaign and election reform as the Republicans.
Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by stochastic_monk on Tuesday January 01, 2019 @11:29PM (#18804185)
How do you square your claims with this?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18802997

Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by sidlls on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @12:03AM (#18804287)
Politicians lie, and words are cheap.
Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by stochastic_monk on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @01:11AM (#18804503)
I’ll re-evaluate them after I see what this house does. I certainly don’t want what the current party in power does.
Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by Wowfunhappy on Tuesday January 01, 2019 @07:58PM (#18803445)
The Supreme Court said limiting campaign finance is unconstitutional. What do you propose politicians do about it?
Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by peteretep on Tuesday January 01, 2019 @08:45PM (#18803612)
Amend the constitution?
Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by bootlooped on Tuesday January 01, 2019 @04:14PM (#18802417)
I think the focus on extremely divisive issues like abortion, lgbt, climate change, etc... has brought the two parties more into line on most other issues, to the delight of many low key interest groups.
Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by CM30 on Tuesday January 01, 2019 @06:32PM (#18803089)
Note how the people that get blamed in these cases don't have much power to begin with, whereas topics involving economical inequality (and money in politics) put the blame on them. If you're a rich and powerful individual or company, it's a lot more convenient to focus on something like LGBT rights (where the blame can be put on poor/rural/uneducated folks) rather than taxes and political lobbying (where the blame would end up on bankers and large corporations).
Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by trophycase on Tuesday January 01, 2019 @05:11PM (#18802720)
It's insane, why not give ground on relatively unimportant wedge issues to fix real problems like inequality, climate change, etc...
Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by Consultant32452 on Tuesday January 01, 2019 @09:53PM (#18803877)
Those are important issues for progressives. The right and middle share common most important issues: jobs, border, security. Progressives make up only about 8% of the population, and they're overwhelmingly white and wealthy. Here's a video discussing the relevant study.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mm1TrY-t0ng

Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by didibus on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @01:32AM (#18804589)
I read the study, it's very good. The video not so much, and your summary here is misleading and wrong and not very representative of the study I just read.

First, the study specifically avoided self identification and labeling. They clustered people based on their answers to core belief questions. From which they found 7 key clusters. One of those the study labeled Progressive Activists. But that's a label put on after the fact. So it doesn't mean 8% of the population identify as progressive activist. Just that from the study, there's 8% of the population with very similar core beliefs.

Then the study demonstrates that self labels like being left, right, middle, conservative, Democrat, Republican, etc, are bad predictors of shared common issues.

Only 3 out of the 7 groups cared most about jobs, and only one group, the smallest one, cared most about immigration.

The groups the study labeled liberals make up 26%, and the ones labeled conservative 25%. But again, that's the labels the study gave people based on their answers.

Also, the wealthiest and withest cluster identified of them all is the Devoted Conservative.

Finally, the whole point of the study is that appart from the wings of progressist activist (composed of young professionals mostly), and from the traditional (old, white middle class mostly) and devoted conservatives (old, white and wealthiest mostly), all other groups are much more willing to compromise and have varying beliefs depending on the situation, and are most bothered by the wings polarizing the country. Thus when you look at the silent majority, they are much more diversified in opinions.

Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by tangent128 on Tuesday January 01, 2019 @07:34PM (#18803350)
Because if you put the elimination of marriage and gender equality on the table, nobody's going to believe you're remotely interested in fixing inequality.
Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by ajross on Tuesday January 01, 2019 @06:06PM (#18802982)
The government is literally shut down at the moment over a purely partisan divide, and you're trying to make a "they're all the same" point? Seriously?
Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by arcticbull on Tuesday January 01, 2019 @09:33PM (#18803809)
They’re quibbling over basically nothing, making a purely us vs them grandstand. It’s about $1.3B vs $5B in border security funding. Yeah I think a wall is dumb, not least because I’m not sure which side of the rio grande they plan to put it on. This is a new point of contention though, I’m not sure prior to Trump Democrats and Republicans disagreed a whole lot on immigration or border security at all. How much mileage of fencing did the Obama administration put in? In 2011 he declared it “basically complete.” They found a difference the public cares about right now and seized on it for all they’re worth.

This reminds me of the futurama episode with the clones running for president: A: “your 10c titanium tax goes too far” B: “well I say your 10c titanium tax doesn’t go too far enough!”

[dead]
Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by dang on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @03:40AM (#18804969)
Even if so, please don't break the site guidelines by calling names here.

On HN the idea is: if you have a substantive point to make, make it thoughtfully; if you don't, please don't comment until you do.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Edit: you've unfortunately been breaking the guidelines so often that we've banned your account. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email [email protected] and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.

Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by reaperducer on Tuesday January 01, 2019 @05:27PM (#18802794)
If either party would start concentrating on free speech issues, they'd have my attention.

But these days, once you get past the five-second sound bites and the rhetoric, there is very little difference between what Republicans and Democrats actually do.

Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by millstone on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @01:31AM (#18804582)
Bush starting two wars and Obama radically overhauling the US health insurance market are basically the same thing, once you get past the sound bites.
Re:Mickey Mouse and Batman will soon be public domain by cazum on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @02:42AM (#18804804)
Theres plenty of ways to compare and separate the Republicans from the democrats, but war is really not one of them.