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Re:Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record by atombender on Friday December 28, 2018 @10:24PM (#18781600)
That sounds like a great life-work balance, but it also sounds like a privileged position that is unrealistic for many teachers. My girlfriend teaches art to kids aged 8-14 at an urban public school, and she has zero time during the day for lesson planning, grading, seating plans, hanging up artwork, dealing with parents, etc. On most days she has to stay behind for several hours, and she often works throughout the weekend. She doesn't get paid overtime (nor does the school offer health insurance or 401(k)) because she's technically a contractor -- the school can't afford full time hires -- and she constantly has to spend her own money on supplies and materials for her classes. Refusing to work outside work hours would be career suicide, pretty much.
Re:Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record by grecy on Saturday December 29, 2018 @04:32AM (#18782839)
> sounds like a privileged position that is unrealistic for many teachers

Well sure, he lives in Australia which has much, much better working conditions than the USA.

It sounds like your girlfriend is being taken advantage of and working in a situation that is not to her benefit. In which case she needs to start looking for a new job!

Re:Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record by plankers on Saturday December 29, 2018 @07:56AM (#18783371)
In which case nobody would be teaching the kids art. Of course she's being taken advantage of, she's a teacher in 21st century western civilization.
Re:Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record by dan-robertson on Saturday December 29, 2018 @10:29AM (#18783993)
The comment you are replying to mentions a teacher who doesn’t seem to be being taken advantage of. Your comment seems to imply that all teachers in 21st century western civilisation are taken advantage of. Do you mean that the Australian teacher mentioned is still being taken advantage of, or that Australia is not western civilisation (or that they are not working in the 21st century)?
Re:Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record by grecy on Saturday December 29, 2018 @03:33PM (#18785525)
Americans like to deny the outside world exists, and that in many ways it's much better than America. It's a strange way to behave, rather than learning what they can improve in their own society.
Re:Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record by atombender on Saturday December 29, 2018 @10:02AM (#18783859)
I wouldn't say she's being taken advantage of. This is a city school in a depressed area, everyone is overwhelmed (she has several hundred students across her classes), and working with near-zero budgets.

There just isn't work available within a reasonable commute distance. She'd have to move if she wanted better conditions.

Re:Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record by grecy on Saturday December 29, 2018 @02:50PM (#18785342)
> She'd have to move if she wanted better conditions

There you go. Do what it takes to improve your work-life. I moved from one perfectly good First World country to another, because I wanted a different life. It was difficult and took a long time, but it was absolutely worth it.

Re:Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record by kojeovo on Friday December 28, 2018 @11:21PM (#18781813)
What does the her schedule look like exactly? She's in the classroom teaching for 8 hours straight (minus lunch)?

This reads a lot like people who make excuses for not having time to exercise. I get that some positions will require you to put in work outside of work hours, but to say 'has zero time' seems like a bit of an excuse.

Re:Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record by atombender on Friday December 28, 2018 @11:55PM (#18781933)
She has a short (45min?) planning period to start her day with her co-teacher, but as I understand it, it's nowhere enough. After that, her classes run back to back, yes. She has one meager lunch break lasting something like 15 minutes -- she actually started drinking Soylent for lunch because she doesn't have time for anything more complicated than that plus an apple. She gets up at 6:30am and doesn't really take time to eat breakfast either. It all sounds unbelievably stressful to me. It's very different from my own privileged life as a software developer.
Re:Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record by kojeovo on Saturday December 29, 2018 @12:12AM (#18781993)
Damn, that's pretty ridiculous. Teachers have it a lot better in Canada from what I gather. At least in my area.
Re:Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record by kakarot on Saturday December 29, 2018 @12:01AM (#18781958)
At least in America, most teachers are expected to take home work and spend a large portion of time outside of the strict 6-8 school day doing lesson planning, grading, etc.

Their wages are quickly approaching what you would expect at a fry cook position yet Wendy's doesn't give you four hours of extra homework a night.

We are headed for a giant education crisis because we overwork and underpay under-qualified teachers.

Those of us who cannot afford to keep their kids in private or home school will have it rough finding quality education for their kids.

Re:Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record by tomohawk on Saturday December 29, 2018 @09:11AM (#18783611)
All of the most successful teachers I had placed tight boundaries on when they worked. They were organized, fast, and efficient. One history teacher I had only ever gave essay tests. He would have them all graded by 4pm. As one class was taking the exam, he would grade the previous class's essays. He had been a colonel in the army, and so had learned how to be ruthlessly efficient. One of the best teachers I had. Similarly, had a neighbor who had been a colonel and became a realtor when he retired. He way outworked everyone else, including realtors with many years of experience. He was accustomed to slamming through all the paperwork quickly and carried that to his realtor gig.

I have known many teachers who were never trained to be efficient or organized, and who did not anticipate the paperwork load that comes with the job. They would struggle under the paperwork load due to this.

But, what do we expect from a system run by government administrators with little or no transparency or accountability. The administrators pile on the paperwork, because that is what means quality to them. That is what they do.

Re:Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record by kakarot on Saturday December 29, 2018 @09:36AM (#18783739)
> All of the most successful teachers I had placed tight boundaries on when they worked. They were organized, fast, and efficient.

You're describing efficient people. Unfortunately we do not properly train our teachers because we do not want to properly pay them.

[dead]
Re:Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record by tomohawk on Saturday December 29, 2018 @01:33PM (#18784987)
Thanks for putting words in my mouth.

My point is that teachers do not become teachers to do paperwork. They become teachers to teach. However, their job is defined by government administrators who measure everything by how much paperwork is done.

Teachers are receiving the wrong training and have the wrong expectations, so they are leaving.

Re:Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record by kakarot on Sunday December 30, 2018 @12:37AM (#18787621)
I'm sorry if it seemed like I was putting words in your mouth. I did directly quote you.

I didn't become a software developer to document every minute action or go to meetings or explain complex concepts to clueless bosses or meet intense deadlines, I became a software developer to program. Yet...

Besides having more realistic expectations about my field due to exhaustive research, which in fact led me to change my mind about becoming a teacher or professor and just focusing on software development, I also trained myself extensively extracurricularly to be prepared for my job.

What motivates all of this is the salary and the control over my life which programming affords me.

Neither of those things are pluses about being a teacher. Their salaries are absolute garbage and get worse every year, and they have little control over how they structure their life. Most of the motivated public school teachers I knew growing up have moved into administrative positions because of this.

What ends up happening is that it's mostly just the inefficient people without foresight who remain in college for 4-6 years to become a teacher. The quality of applicants is directly tied to the quality of life afforded by the position. And in my opinion, public school teaching positions should be some of the highest-paid and highest-qualified jobs in the market, on par with college professors and junior to mid level engineers. At least more on par with what their administrators are already pocketing.

Re:Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record by pjleonhardt on Friday December 28, 2018 @11:33PM (#18781850)
Not the OP, but my wife is a teacher and has one 50 minute prep during her day. She teaches 7 different classes. Most days the school can't find enough substitute teachers and she ends up having to sub for another class during her one prep hour.
Re:Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record by kaitai on Friday December 28, 2018 @11:47PM (#18781895)
Well, that's actually true in a lot of schools in the US -- over lunch you have cafeteria duty and right after school there's the patrolling pick-up/busses and the after school clubs...