News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by redisman on Monday December 17, 2018 @08:41PM (#18703904)
Too bad there are so many people like Manafort who are happy to take on that job for a quick buck. Sure people are being hunted down but check out the ostrich jacket!
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by jo2ie on Monday December 17, 2018 @09:17PM (#18704044)
Well the depressing part for me is I have seen good friends, extremely smart people who have no sane reason to be working on shady shit, fall down the rabbit hole. And I really haven't found effective ways to do anything about it...

There are two issues at play

1. Not everyone is prepared mentally to turn down big payouts. I have seen this happening up and down the food chain. You only understand how hard this is after you have been in that position. And these day some of the cheques that get waved in your face are insane.

2. People get sucked into a certain kind of "lifestyle" that they get insecure about loosing. And will do whatever it takes to maintain that lifestyle. Once they get "trapped" they are part of this global mega machine of similar folk. Sometimes it feels like watching ants in an anthill. All on autopilot.

The thing is they know they are trapped and convincing them to give it up is not simple.

Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by tinus_hn on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @06:11AM (#18705740)
It’s not just about the money. Some people can just be really persuasive and in reality most things are not really that black and white.
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by ethbro on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @06:41AM (#18705845)
It's funny how things tend to get less black and white as more money is offered.
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by tinus_hn on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @12:59PM (#18708787)
It’s funny how things tend to get less black and white if you actually look at pros and cons and listen to arguments. The fact that there actually are pros and cons to most things means they are not black and white.
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by ethbro on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @11:32PM (#18713025)
Show me evil that cannot be justified with enough words, and I'll show you an uncreative salesperson.
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by tinus_hn on Wednesday December 19, 2018 @02:30AM (#18713860)
Sounds so deep, yet means absolutely nothing. A great piece of marijuana ‘wisdom’.
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by ethbro on Wednesday December 19, 2018 @09:39PM (#18722059)
To elaborate for you, I was saying that with enough words anything can be justified.

Ergo, in response to your previous post, one of two things is true. (1) There is no true evil in the world. Or (2) one should be suspicious of elaborate arguments, because they're often coming from people paid to defend profitable evil.

The counterargument to (2) would be "Well, 'good' has PR too." But I think it's objectively demonstrable that evil pays much better.

Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by lugg on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @01:55AM (#18704983)
> Not everyone is prepared mentally to turn down big payouts

Nobody is prepared for racial profiling and genocide either.

Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by grey-area on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @04:39AM (#18705477)
I think the OP is explaining, not attempting to justify.
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by jacobush on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @05:12AM (#18705576)
Yep - difference between empathy (explaining) and sympathy (justifying).
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by lugg on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @10:13AM (#18706952)
The only reason one would share their empathy for these people is to garner sympathy. That is what I took issue with.

Let's try this again,

You said you haven't found effective ways to do anything about it.

How about you stop calling them friends for a start.

Secondly, say something. You're literally the only one who can.

Don't just sit there and try to justify their shitty actions so you can let yourself off the hook as if you tried but couldn't do anything because you know, what about their lifestyles.

Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by fipple on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @12:14AM (#18704679)
Evil is more banal than that. I have no ostrich jacket but I’d create a spying tool for an authoritarian government for the right price. For me it would be about $5-10 million.
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by reimertz on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @03:04AM (#18705163)
Why?
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by fipple on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @03:18AM (#18705216)
It would completely set up my family and children for life. I’d get to quit my job and spend all day with my kids. If some people I don’t know get fucked over for that, whatever. And that kind of thinking is why the world is such a wretched place. But I can’t say I wouldn’t jump at the opportunity.
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by pimmen on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @04:20AM (#18705413)
If one of your kids was disenfranchised by the government in an illegal way (maybe it was denied healthcare, education, protection of the law or something else that's fundamental) but because an engineer was paid 5-10 million you were powerless to stop it would you be as motivated to build something like that too after knowing what the damage feels like?
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by analognoise on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @06:09AM (#18705731)
No, but that isn't the same hypothetical.
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by pimmen on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @07:36AM (#18706027)
I know, but it would expose a lack of empathy for the victims.
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by analognoise on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @10:58AM (#18707460)
The original author was directly pointing out that his empathy didn't extend that far.

The US sells more weapons than anyone else - obviously a LOT of people make a living selling them.

Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by C1sc0cat on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @07:16AM (#18705946)
Depends if your host countries intelligence agency takes a dim view of what you are doing as happened with the Iraqi super gun.

And some countries play harder ball than the CIA and SIS

Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by daemin on Wednesday December 19, 2018 @05:14AM (#18714614)
Why not offer it for them to buy as well?

If you're making this sort of software for one country or organisation then you're effectively a weapons trafficker so you might as well sell to all sides and reap in the profits.

Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by lostlogin on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @10:35AM (#18707186)
Would you xo it for $4.95 million?

It’s a very slippery slope.

Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by magpi3 on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @05:55AM (#18705703)
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by drugme on Wednesday December 19, 2018 @03:12PM (#18719094)
If some people I don’t know get fucked over for that, whatever.

And when your kids lost all respect for you after finding out what a shameless sell-out you are, well...

whatever.

Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by user2426679 on Wednesday December 19, 2018 @05:41PM (#18720558)
Please be honest and admit that this is solely about yourself; your kids having nothing to do with this except with respect to your own benefit. Even Walter White "did everything for his family."
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by ionised on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @05:29AM (#18705615)
> It would completely set up my family and children for life.

This isn't as good an excuse as you think it is.

You might want to ask yourself if there is anything you believe in or care about beyond your own genetic code.

Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by chippy on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @06:25AM (#18705795)
One could imagine him thinking about him taking the job as a sacrifice. He will sacrifice his morals and what he cares about for the security of his family and children. He knows that he will sell his soul and be crushed, but he also knows that his family will be okay.

It's one of the reasons suicide bombers blow themselves up too.

But, as in this case he will live and it ignores the lasting psychological damage on those around them - becoming malevolent will affect the people around, and not in a good way.

Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @09:54AM (#18706744)
> but he also knows that his family will be okay.

Not really. By succumbing to this temptation he's contributing to creating a worse future for everyone, including his children and their children.

Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by tzakrajs on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @10:00PM (#18712660)
Yes, the commenter we are addressing is a trash bag of a human being and wants us to know because they have anonymity. We don’t need to deep dive further.
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by bufferoverflow on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @08:00AM (#18706119)
His soul will not necessarily be crushed. Think about it, most of us (well paid IT peoples) could easily spend 10-20% of our income to save some random people across the world from certain death by hunger/thirst/lack of basic meds or infrastructure. Each of us could be literally saving 10-100 people, but almost none of us do. I know I don't. Does it make me a shitty person? Yes. Does it crush me? No. I don't think about the poor dying people most of the time.
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by fipple on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @01:43PM (#18709273)
I don’t think it’s an excuse. I’m admitting the ways in which I am a bad person in a way I can only do on a web site not associates with my real name.
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by p_b_r on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @10:15PM (#18712722)
More importantly, why is having an ostrich jacket relevant? I don't have a pony either.
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by jeron on Monday December 17, 2018 @09:12PM (#18704021)
for every company that refuses, there'll be one that will take it on for the right price...
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by praptak on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @02:55AM (#18705139)
This is both true and a shitty excuse.
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by dantheman on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @06:01AM (#18705715)
and hopefully they'll be inept and it won't work.

and then they'll shop around some more.

it will cost them, more and more, and hopefully it will be deemed not worth it.

Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by ionised on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @05:31AM (#18705626)
The Mantra of Greed.