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Re:Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell by taneq on Friday December 14, 2018 @07:42AM (#18680397)
> This story is a good reminder not to do this. The company will usually not return the favour, you rarely get properly rewarded for crazy hours, yet it has a major impact on your health (both mental and physical) in the long run. Not worth it.

And yet it's also a perfect example of the one time it does make sense to do so, which is when you own a decent chunk of the company that you're doing it for.

> No wonder things were going to shit. Nobody can do good work if they don't get enough rest and have too much stress.

Yeah, that kind of effort is not sustainable for more than a few months at most. Trying to push too hard just burns out your best people, even (especially?) if they're part owners.

Re:Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell by wpietri on Friday December 14, 2018 @07:57AM (#18680476)
I would be amazed if it were sustainable for even that long. My recollection is that it's a couple of weeks before productivity ends up back where it would be if you were just working reasonable hours. And then you rapidly descend into less and less productive states. (There used to be a great presentation with linked research about this here [1], but their website seems shaky.)

I think it's an especially bad idea at high levels of the company, because of the long feedback loops. If a line worker makes a mistake, they will hopefully catch that within hours. If they make a bunch, somebody's going to come talk to them in short order. If an executive makes a mistake, it can be months or years before the problem is obvious. But the more tired I am, the more my focus shifts short-term and the less I notice subtleties and small mistakes. increased error rates and long feedback loops are a very bad combination.

[1] http://www.lostgarden.com/2008/09/rules-of-productivity-pres...

Re:Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell by InitialLastName on Friday December 14, 2018 @08:28AM (#18680620)
> If a line worker makes a mistake, they will hopefully catch that within hours.

> If an executive makes a mistake, it can be months or years before the problem is obvious

To finish the parable: If an engineer makes a mistake, it might not be noticed until users start to die while operating the product.

Re:Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell by taneq on Friday December 14, 2018 @11:40AM (#18682124)
To be fair, very very few engineers are in a position where a mistake would result in sudden unexpected lethality. Usually it's more like "if an engineer makes a mistake, something breaks and a lot of money is wasted, or everything is overengineered and a a lot of money is wasted."
Re:Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell by InitialLastName on Friday December 14, 2018 @12:33PM (#18682650)
That's true in general, but it's less overwhelmingly true when the product is 4000 lb and traveling at >60mph. I'm especially concerned that this appears to be a cultural tendency at Tesla, so a large portion of the engineers are likely working close this point. I hope they all are allowed a solid night's sleep before their design reviews; hopefully they can catch each other's mistakes there at least.
Re:Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell by dkersten on Friday December 14, 2018 @09:19AM (#18680940)
> And yet it's also a perfect example of the one time it does make sense to do so, which is when you own a decent chunk of the company that you're doing it for.

For Musk it might make sense, but I doubt it makes sense for most of his employees. Its not worth fucking your health and social life up over a payout, unless its huge. The typical Tesla worker isn't going to make enough from it to make it worth it, in my opinion.

> Yeah, that kind of effort is not sustainable for more than a few months at most.

Agreed, although likely you'll experience negative effects much sooner, although you may not properly burn out for a few months. There were some posts on HN recently about the long-lasting health impact stress has.

Re:Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell by pjc50 on Friday December 14, 2018 @07:59AM (#18680487)
It's essentially capitalist Stakhanovism.