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Re:Ask HN: Which abandoned proprietary software would you re... by zmix on Saturday December 08, 2018 @12:01PM (#18636145)
> electron eats so much cpu & memory simply because it's > still a web browser, it has to support all those 20 years > of HTML/CSS history and it was designed to do so for 10s > of tabs, so it has a lot of caches and other things.

XULRunner does the same thing, includes, in addition, a full XML GUI language and assorted technologies and the full runtime distribution, on my Windows10 system, including debugging, crash-reporter aids, VC libraries, D3D libraries, consumes 72MB.

Re:Ask HN: Which abandoned proprietary software would you re... by cztomsik on Saturday December 08, 2018 @02:42PM (#18637097)
I wonder what do you think about this: https://github.com/cztomsik/node-webrender node+react+servo, consumes ~30M ram on my osx (if you precompile typescript files)

it's nowhere near to XUL but it's also little more powerful because of react (vdom is more dynamic than XML, it will be possible to use react-devtools and it should support HMR too)

Re:Ask HN: Which abandoned proprietary software would you re... by zmix on Friday December 14, 2018 @10:18AM (#18681354)
I am actually only interested in scriptable XML technologies, so pretty much like Mozilla's XPFE (XUL) was.
Re:Ask HN: Which abandoned proprietary software would you re... by marktangotango on Saturday December 08, 2018 @12:09PM (#18636197)
I often wonder why/how xulrunner has descended into obscurity while electron has blossomed. Anyone have input on that?
Re:Ask HN: Which abandoned proprietary software would you re... by cweagans on Saturday December 08, 2018 @12:44PM (#18636390)
I tried building something with xulrunner a while back and the experience was awful, IMO. I was up and running with Electron within an hour.

xulrunner may be a superior technology, but if it's a PITA to work with, then nobody is going to want to use it.

Re:Ask HN: Which abandoned proprietary software would you re... by drblast on Saturday December 08, 2018 @12:48PM (#18636411)
I haven't used electron, but in 2007 xulrunner was such a pain in the ass to write code for it wasn't worth the effort for anything where you didn't absolutely need an embedded browser, and even then there were better options.

Documentation was poor or non-existent and IIRC the API was based on the half-baked XPCOM because COM and CORBA were all the rage at the time it was created.

Re:Ask HN: Which abandoned proprietary software would you re... by zmix on Saturday December 08, 2018 @02:02PM (#18636863)
> Documentation was poor or non-existent

That's absolutley not true.

"Rapid Application Development with Mozilla" has been published before 2004. It is still online: http://mb.eschew.org/

XUL (and assorted technologies) is/were broadly documentet on MDN.

Re:Ask HN: Which abandoned proprietary software would you re... by Rondom on Sunday December 09, 2018 @10:32PM (#18644976)
Not to mention xulplanet.com which had been very helpful as well.
Re:Ask HN: Which abandoned proprietary software would you re... by zerkten on Saturday December 08, 2018 @12:52PM (#18636446)
Wasn't xulrunner based on XPCOM which Mozilla deprecated? I think this is one of the technical reasons for its decline, but I think the biggest reason was timing.

When xulrunner was being developed there wasn't the same interest in desktop software. It seems like Chromium reached a point where you could build desktop-class software, but the distribution model wasn't right. Someone then decided to adapt Chromium to solve the distribution problem and you have Electron.

If Firefox had evolved to allow the tipping point experience that Chrome did, then you might well have seen xulrunner be that thing. It was years ahead of itself, but perhaps you could question the focus of the folks on the Mozilla side who were spread across so many concepts/ areas compared to the folks at Google - but I think that's for a different thread.

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Re:Ask HN: Which abandoned proprietary software would you re... by dang on Saturday December 08, 2018 @05:01PM (#18637787)
Would you please review the site guidelines at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stop posting unsubstantive comments to HN?
Re:Ask HN: Which abandoned proprietary software would you re... by roywiggins on Saturday December 08, 2018 @04:31PM (#18637650)
Comments about downvoting are nearly always downvoted.
Re:Ask HN: Which abandoned proprietary software would you re... by yjftsjthsd-h on Saturday December 08, 2018 @03:48PM (#18637438)
You didn't give an answer; your post was downvoted for not contributing anything.
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Re:Ask HN: Which abandoned proprietary software would you re... by pimlottc on Saturday December 08, 2018 @03:52PM (#18637464)
How was the gender of Mozilla’s lawyer a factor in this?
Re:Ask HN: Which abandoned proprietary software would you re... by pvg on Saturday December 08, 2018 @02:32PM (#18637043)
The CEO, back then, was a female lawyer.

Really?

Re:Ask HN: Which abandoned proprietary software would you re... by sametmax on Saturday December 08, 2018 @01:36PM (#18636697)
JS had nowhere the popularity it had today. At the time, creating a desktop app in Javascript was not regarded as serious. The reason electron became popular is because so many people from other fields (designers, integraters, students...) learn programming through copy / pasting JS and wanted JS for everything. Hence node. And now electron.
Re:Ask HN: Which abandoned proprietary software would you re... by zmix on Saturday December 08, 2018 @01:59PM (#18636843)
Firefox, Thunderbird (and their spin offs) were all considered serious desktop apps. They all were written with XPFE/XULRunner.
Re:Ask HN: Which abandoned proprietary software would you re... by TeMPOraL on Saturday December 08, 2018 @02:09PM (#18636910)
They didn't advertise that much, though. I only learned about XULRunner when I was trying out a keyboard-driven browser (Conkeror). Unlike Electron, XUL wasn't promoted.
Re:Ask HN: Which abandoned proprietary software would you re... by zmix on Sunday December 09, 2018 @05:06PM (#18643582)
And that is the main reason, IMO. Mozilla Inc. never wanted to do more with it.
Re:Ask HN: Which abandoned proprietary software would you re... by cztomsik on Saturday December 08, 2018 @02:21PM (#18636986)
uh, I wouldn't say electron got popular because of copy-pasting newbies.

webapp development is a lot of work and SPAs are actually even harder... and so is server development with node. I love javascript, yet I don't think it's suitable for everything.

electron got popular, because companies could reuse code and tooling, only for the cost of cpu & memory