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Re:Huawei Reveals the Real Trade War with China by iliketosleep on Friday December 07, 2018 @09:20AM (#18627833)
A Chinese national was talking about this 100 year plan to me just the other day. It's certainly no secret or just a theory. The Chinese Dream is all about "the great rejuvenation of the Chinese nation". This isn't explicitly about overtaking the US, it's more about China taking what it considers to be its rightful place in the world - and that certainly isn't second place. In my view, it's only rational that this would be their goal.

China is definitely no friend of the US, nor an enemy (at this point), but definitely a genuine competitor. If the US does not recognize this and act accordingly, China will indeed replace it as the world superpower. If you're Chinese, this would be great news, if you're American it would be concerning. It's always going to be bad news for one of the parties due to the conflicting ideologies.

Re:Huawei Reveals the Real Trade War with China by sonnyblarney on Saturday December 08, 2018 @01:25AM (#18634189)
"f you're Chinese, this would be great news"

Why?

When China becomes uber powerful, will the state then stop controlling everyone's thoughts?

Will they have basic rights then?

Or will corruption go away?

Will people still be looking to flee China when it's #1?

Re:Huawei Reveals the Real Trade War with China by thaumasiotes on Saturday December 08, 2018 @04:40AM (#18634601)
> When China becomes uber powerful, will the state then stop controlling everyone's thoughts?

> Will they have basic rights then?

> Or will corruption go away?

> Will people still be looking to flee China when it's #1?

If you assume that the future will be basically like the past (untrue, but better than most assumptions), then the answers are:

1. It doesn't now, it can't now, and it won't be able to then. But it definitely won't stop trying.

2. Yes, in much the same way they have basic rights now. Which is to say, they will enjoy what their culture thinks of as basic rights, but probably not what you think of as basic rights.

3. No.

4. Yes, just as people have sought to flee every country in the past or present.

Re:Huawei Reveals the Real Trade War with China by jpe32 on Saturday December 08, 2018 @03:05AM (#18634362)
It's just a story.

Some people like the story and rally around it.

As our world gets more and more hyperconnected whatever delusions groups of people have of their favorite story being accepted as global narrative get tested very fast.

And break down faster if there is no universal appeal. There are enough examples playing out around the world.

All these nationalistic stories will keep breaking down.

There are 5 billion more people in the world than the Americans and Chinese put together. They aren't going to blindly bend over to either an American or Chinese narrative.

We like to live in this dream state that the most powerful countries matter. They dont. Ask the Taliban.

The Indians and Russians and Europeans and South Americans and Africans don't give one shit about Make America great again or Make China great again.

What will play out is a collapse of these narratives in spectacular fashion.

Re:Huawei Reveals the Real Trade War with China by sonnyblarney on Saturday December 08, 2018 @10:56AM (#18635796)
"We like to live in this dream state that the most powerful countries matter. They dont. Ask the Taliban."

You mean ask a bunch of people living in the stone age, who are getting killed en masse what they think of their power relative to others?

I think you picked maybe the worst possible example: just because a group can live on rice in inhostile territory doesn't mean that the power ratio is negated.

If the Americans wanted to actually destroy the Taliban it wouldn't be that hard, it would just come at a cost nobody wants to pay.

Re:Huawei Reveals the Real Trade War with China by coldtea on Saturday December 08, 2018 @09:49AM (#18635463)
Well, whether the give a shit or not, there are winners and losers. People didn't give a shit about the Roman Empire either.
Re:Huawei Reveals the Real Trade War with China by coldtea on Saturday December 08, 2018 @09:48AM (#18635457)
A rising tide raises all boats. All things being equal its better for a Chinese to be in a strong China than a second tier one. Plus, the average Chinese doesn't necessarily share the concerns of western observers, they have had a different culture and values of their own for millennia, and a state that wasn't entirely different than their current.

Besides, anybody can ask the same. If the US keeps its power or gains even more, will the cops stop killing black citizens? Will the big corps stop have politicians in their pockets? Will Wall Street lackeys get out of power? Will mass surveillance stop? Will wars for oil and "national interests" stop? Will the middle and working class stop declining? Will healthcare be affordable?

Re:Huawei Reveals the Real Trade War with China by sonnyblarney on Saturday December 08, 2018 @10:53AM (#18635779)
"Plus, the average Chinese doesn't necessarily share the concerns of western observers, they have had a different culture and values of their own for millennia, and a state that wasn't entirely different than their current."

I call rubbish.

Corruption is corruption and nobody ever accepts it as 'part of our historical culture'.

Having a corrupt government official take your home because they want to build a mall is pretty much Universally bad.

Being thrown in a concentration camp because of your religion not something anyone wants.

Having to bribe officials to get where you want is not something anyone wants.

Being told how many children you can and cannot have is not something anyone would rather live with.

I accept that people will accept differing levels of surveillance etc. - but in the end there are universal issues here.

Re:Huawei Reveals the Real Trade War with China by coldtea on Sunday December 09, 2018 @12:17PM (#18641959)
>Corruption is corruption and nobody ever accepts it as 'part of our historical culture'

You'd be surprised. Some cultures don't like rigid "law and order" on everyday life, and prefer bendable laws in some cases (even if are OK with stricter laws in others). It has a lot to do with historical development and custom law, rather than some sterile "law trumps everything" being everybody's utopia.

>Having a corrupt government official take your home because they want to build a mall is pretty much Universally bad.

Sure, but having a strong government and not blow up a 1.6 billion country into competing factions and civil war chaos is pretty much universally badder.

Most of the "bleeding hearts" (for the countries of others), assume once you break down the "corrupt government" a functional democracy will follow.

The never bother wondering whether a functional democracy is even possible at that scale, nor to ponder the other places they've turned into hell-holes with their interventions.

Nor do they care much about sovereignty, the idea that people should fix those things for themselves, and not have some third parties (with their own ideas, culture, and interests) impose a solution.

>Being told how many children you can and cannot have is not something anyone would rather live with.

At the individual level maybe. But having too much population grown in your country is not something "anyone would rather live with" either.

Re:Huawei Reveals the Real Trade War with China by yodsanklai on Friday December 07, 2018 @09:30AM (#18627923)
> If you're Chinese, this would be great news, if you're American it would be concerning.

What if you're not American nor Chinese?

Re:Huawei Reveals the Real Trade War with China by bilbo0s on Friday December 07, 2018 @09:51AM (#18628094)
If you're not American or Chinese...

And America and China really do want to both be the lone superpower. (I'm just not convinced of this premise by the way, but let's assume it's true)...

Then the rational thing for you to do is look back on the past, what? 70 or so years and ask yourself has it been good for you or bad for you? That should give you a pretty good idea of which nation you'd be best off with as the super-power.

Then kick back, grab some popcorn, and hope that your guy wins.

I mean, if you're not American or Chinese...

it's easy.

Re:Huawei Reveals the Real Trade War with China by xiphias2 on Friday December 07, 2018 @10:22AM (#18628359)
I hope that my country (Hungary) will not be the battle ground for the 2 superpowers. It was for the last 1000 years.
Re:Huawei Reveals the Real Trade War with China by setr on Saturday December 08, 2018 @03:07AM (#18634366)
In that case you don’t care who wins — just that win quickly ;)
Re:Huawei Reveals the Real Trade War with China by nbsd4life on Saturday December 08, 2018 @05:37AM (#18634706)
the 'cold war' ended up being a bunch of proxy actual-wars in my area, and I don't think the thousands that died liked it very much.
Re:Huawei Reveals the Real Trade War with China by axelrosen on Friday December 07, 2018 @09:40AM (#18628007)
Generally going to face a similar fate as Americans. With exception of a few sanctioned countries everyone can participate economically and legally in the US subject to the same laws.
Re:Huawei Reveals the Real Trade War with China by wybiral on Friday December 07, 2018 @09:45AM (#18628041)
Pick a side to bet on.
Re:Huawei Reveals the Real Trade War with China by bilbo0s on Friday December 07, 2018 @09:46AM (#18628049)
>China will indeed replace it as the world superpower...

Again, why would this be an issue? I mean, for us here in the USA? Why would we not want to be rid of the "privilege" of being the "super" power in what is clearly a multi-polar world?

Re:Huawei Reveals the Real Trade War with China by pault on Friday December 07, 2018 @09:54AM (#18628125)
The US position as the top superpower is what allows it to print its way out of recessions without being crushed by inflation, since all those extra dollars get stashed away in foreign reserves. If the dollar loses that status, the chicken that is the federal debt will finally come home to roost. At least that's my understanding. If the US loses its edge, inflation will go up as growth slows, resulting in something like Japan's lost decade. Not to mention the preferential treatment it gets by having the biggest stick.
Re:Huawei Reveals the Real Trade War with China by bilbo0s on Friday December 07, 2018 @10:07AM (#18628237)
I'd make two points here though:

First, the vast majority of our debt is owed to ourselves, not to foreigners.

Second, what makes our dollars so valuable, is not our status as a super-power, but our willingness to pay it back. Think of it this way, the big ticket items in the US government budget are the military, Medicare/SS, and debt service. Now we hear all the time talk about cuts to the military or medicare/ss. But no one even CONSIDERS talk about cutting debt service. THAT is what makes dollars so valuable. (It's also why the vast majority of them are eaten up by us and not foreigners.)

So I'm not convinced at all that our dollars are valuable because we are a super-power. Russia was a super-power, and no one was stockpiling rubles. Likewise, Switzerland is not a super-power, but everyone should have some swiss francs.

Re:Huawei Reveals the Real Trade War with China by pabl0rg on Saturday December 08, 2018 @06:09AM (#18634769)
For most countries, paying their debt is just table stakes (not paying their debt is not an option).

That doesn’t give them leverage to print money inflation-free.

What allows the US to do it is the USD’s status as the leading global reserve and trade currency. That status is based on habit and influence.

Re:Huawei Reveals the Real Trade War with China by dragandj on Saturday December 08, 2018 @06:22AM (#18634793)
Yes, but what makes it possible to service such debt at such scale is that US can strongarm the whole world into submission. It is not the only thing that matters (relevant to the USSR example) but it is the major one.
Re:Huawei Reveals the Real Trade War with China by pkhagah on Friday December 07, 2018 @10:48AM (#18628611)
Correlated to that US would also lose its huge influence in financial institutions world wide. Right now US influnce is preventing World Bank funds from being used to pay for One Belt projects. Few countries want to pay off loans for One belt project using Western loans. If China had been sole superpower, it would have bulldozed even more on projects similar to One Belt project than it is currently doing now.
Re:Huawei Reveals the Real Trade War with China by xiphias2 on Friday December 07, 2018 @10:20AM (#18628337)
This is true, but the interesting thing is that USA is quite favourable to Bitcoin, which I believe will be the next reserve currency. For now it looks like Chinese government is missing out on the most important technical innovation.
Re:Huawei Reveals the Real Trade War with China by iliketosleep on Friday December 07, 2018 @10:17AM (#18628305)
Because when you lose power, you are exposed to a greater number of risks that are beyond your control. This risk is magnified when the new superpower is different to you politically, culturally, and ideologically.
Re:Huawei Reveals the Real Trade War with China by wybiral on Friday December 07, 2018 @09:52AM (#18628101)
China would need to come clean with a few of the skeletons behind its firewall before I would feel comfortable with them wielding that much power.

I'm not saying that America is innocent (by any means), just that I would rather them hand the torch to a country that's more honest to their own people and operates more openly.

Re:Huawei Reveals the Real Trade War with China by coldtea on Saturday December 08, 2018 @09:53AM (#18635481)
>just that I would rather them hand the torch to a country that's more honest to their own people and operates more openly.

So, China then? At least with party rule, what you get is what you see.