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Re:Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended by apatters on Thursday December 06, 2018 @05:22AM (#18616790)
> This is another thing that adds to my deep sense of shame to live in this country (sadly, that list is long and growing).

I don't support this legislation, but I have to ask, which country is doing a better job on human rights issues than Australia in your opinion? Surely not China or nearly any country in Asia, Africa, or South America? Surely not the US? Probably not much of Europe?

Re:Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended by shakna on Thursday December 06, 2018 @05:32AM (#18616841)
To paraphrase our PM, speaking on medical evacuation of children, "I will do whatever is possible to prevent it."

Australia's government blocked legislation that would help kids not die. Because they came on a boat. Which has never been the primary way illegal immigrants get into this country.

Nauru was declared a human rights travesty by the UN.

The medical board that decides whether or not it is a medical emergency that needs to be treated in Australia is staffed by lawyers and only occasionally features a doctor.

We're killing people from neglect, because they dared to take any avenue available to them to escape their homes.

If we put half the effort into assessing their case as we do into making sure they stay in a place reminiscent of WWII slave encampments, there would be no issues.

Re:Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended by nickcox on Thursday December 06, 2018 @05:55AM (#18616958)
It is an absolute national shame. MSF recently likened the mental health of the people on Nauru to victims of torture.[1]

The most disturbing aspect is the strong bipartisan and public support for the ongoing abuse. Every Australian should wake up in the morning, take a long hard look in the mirror and ask themselves if they're proud of what they've become.

[1] https://www.msf.org.au/article/statements-opinion/indefinite...

Re:Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended by brokenmachine on Thursday December 06, 2018 @06:26AM (#18617087)
>The most disturbing aspect is the strong bipartisan and public support for the ongoing abuse.

Is there really public support? Everyone I've talked to thinks it's a disgrace.

Re:Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended by bigiain on Thursday December 06, 2018 @06:41AM (#18617158)
My personal social circle and Sydney Inner West socailly aware bubble all thinks it's a disgrace, but I'm not kidding myself into thinking I'd need to go very far before I bumped into people who'd justify it to themselves as "necessary for the country", and not a lot further to find people actively and vocally celebrating the cruelness...
Re:Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended by bigger_cheese on Thursday December 06, 2018 @10:23PM (#18624902)
Yes this is the sad truth unfortunately a huge swathe of the general population support the 'tough on refugees' stance. It can get pretty ugly. About 5 years ago I was pretty heavily involved in refugee activism a friend and I were spat on in a shopping center for circulating a petition and was not uncommon to get verbally abused by people in the street. This was in a safe labor area too so it's not exactly like I was in some conservative heartland.
Re:Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended by nickcox on Thursday December 06, 2018 @06:38AM (#18617131)
The pollies seem to think so. I don't know anyone who admitted voting for Abbott in 2013 either but a lot of people obviously did.
Re:Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended by blu_prussian on Thursday December 13, 2018 @10:50PM (#18678329)
There have been slightly more encouraging signs recently that the tides are shifting, at least in my view. The rinsing the state Liberals got in Victoria after desperately pushing the openly racist and patently false "African youths are all gang members and everyone is afraid of being robbed" rhetoric, as well as the uptick in general awareness and number of protests makes me hope the publics apathy is morphing into a deep national shame.

That being said being a "coastal elite" in a progressive area isn't necessarily a good litmus test

Re:Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended by Joakal on Thursday December 06, 2018 @04:55PM (#18622694)
Some people say the efforts by Liberal/Labor are to discourage a lot more refugees from overwhelming Australia. Resulting in increased crime, less jobs, etc. They acknowledge that some will suffer in the process.

Other points I noticed: - Coming across as emotional about the harm and suffering on Nauru or escaping war, they will dismiss all arguments as immature and feel like they're being an adult to you. - Some are persuaded by increased economic activity and net welfare investment benefits but want more screening but wouldn't know how to do this effectively.

Source: Asking random people about policies. Some people you can try asking: mechanics, tradies, checkout people, business people, asking people who handout stuff for Liberal/Labor. To get a deep understanding, read their sources, any of the Murdoch rags or right wing morning shows (ie Alan Jones).

Re:Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended by brokenmachine on Thursday December 06, 2018 @10:03PM (#18624795)
>Some people say the efforts by Liberal/Labor are to discourage a lot more refugees from overwhelming Australia. Resulting in increased crime, less jobs, etc.

Meanwhile we're letting every man and his dog waltz in through the front door, as long as they have money.

But we don't want those dirty refugees! Lock them up in our own Aussie Guantanamo and throw away the key. It's sickening.

Re:Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended by mijamo on Thursday December 06, 2018 @05:36AM (#18616861)
Actually I think several latin american and european country do a better job on human rights issues. Some african countries as well.

See for instance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Index_of_Moral_Freedom#W...

Re:Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended by neotek on Thursday December 06, 2018 @05:30AM (#18616836)
Why does it matter? It's not a zero sum game, what others are doing is completely irrelevant to the question of whether or not what we're doing is disgustingly immoral (and it is, as far as I'm concerned.)
Re:Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended by toyg on Thursday December 06, 2018 @05:27AM (#18616822)
Iceland.

But yeah, “cryptonomicon” utopias are hard to get by, these days.

Re:Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended by oger on Thursday December 06, 2018 @05:41AM (#18616891)
This is a classical‘whataboutism‘ trying to deflect from the real subject by bringing up another. But keeping in line with that theme: what about detaining immigrants in Nauru, Christmans Island, Manus Island etc. under doubtful circumstances with no open access for press and NGOs?
Re:Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended by StavrosK on Thursday December 06, 2018 @05:44AM (#18616904)
I didn't read the comment as tu quoque, I read it as "it's a bit shit everywhere". Even Canada treats native populations badly, I don't know what things are like in the Scandinavian countries.

Too bad, it's almost 2020 and we still can't get "treat people well" right. What hope do animals or the environment have?

Re:Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended by PeterisP on Thursday December 06, 2018 @10:50AM (#18619007)
Wasn't the situation in Nauru that the immigrants aren't considered detained as they are free to return home as soon as they agree to do so?