Can the money you earn as an employee make the streets quieter or the pavements less packed or the air less polluted?

Yes?

Most of the air in NYC is reasonably clean, and there are lots of quiet streets and less packed pavements. And you can always pay for special double insulated windows, or for a higher floor. My PM 2.5 readings in my Manhattan apartment are usually under 5, and better if I open my windows.

And it’s hard to beat the health benefits of waking every day vs driving like you do in almost every other American city.

walking isn't anywhere near as exertive as cycling/running.

i like walking & cycle pretty much everywhere i can. i've never found walking amongst/against throngs of people to be relaxing or enjoyable - quite the opposite so i'm sure the stress of walking in NYC negates much of the health benefits of walking in general.

Commuting to work via something other than a car is attainable nearly anywhere though. I've been doing it for a decade in central Georgia/Raleigh/Durham/Seattle/Denver. The other side of the coin is that if you do need to drive in (for whatever reason...carrying something large, need to do errands...) it's actually possible.

Queens and Brooklyn away from the waterfront are basically suburbs except that in a 30-40 minute subway commute for $130/month you get a city with 26642 eateries (8/23/2018 based on the health department ), hundreds if not thousands of points of interest and the kind of melting pot that simply does not exist anywhere else in the US.

A rhetorical question used to disguise your distaste for specific attributes of NYC, how clever. Consider, however, that those things are not important to the parent commenter, at least not as important as other attributes.

> A rhetorical question used to disguise your distaste for specific attributes of NYC

A rhetorical question

> of NYC

of any crowded city.

> Consider, however, that those things are not important to the parent commenter, at least not as important as other attributes.

I hope the irony of you making this statement isn't lost.

> how clever.

Bite your tongue and be civil.

Can the money you save make up for reduced opportunities to hobnob with millionaires and weaving yourself into a network of the upperclass and therefore increasing your chances of hitting it big (or fantasizing about it)?

Sure it can, ass-kissing the wealthy isn't everyone's hobby

I know, my comment was intended to be a tongue-in-cheek response of what I think draws many to tier 1 cities.

I see, apologies for misunderstanding your rhetoric

> or fantasizing about it

2 bucks on a lotto ticket achieves the same result for me.

Yeah, move to the Upper East Side.

I'm thinking of moving to NYC from San Francisco, while I bootstrap a new venture. It seems it should be cheaper but still have access to peer networks/potential hires and investors for when the time comes. Do you think that's right?

What's the threshold you think you need to earn for it not to be brutal?

NYC area isn't like SF. You can go 40 minutes outside of SF and it's still expensive.

It all depends where you want to live in NYC. Manhattan you'll want to make at least 150k to live alone. If you move outside then you have a lot more options but still be able to commute into the city easily.

I lived in Manhattan for 7 years and SF area for 6. I now live outside of Denver and its by far the best move of my life.

I hear nothing but complaints from people who have to commute into NYC. If you're not in Manhattan or the nicer parts of Brooklyn, you're easily adding 30 min to your door to door commute, plus the variance is huge due to the ever decreasing quality of the public transit.

If you're living in SF you already know what the thresholds are like, mostly. It heavily depends on your life situation. If you're willing to live with roommates and don't have much in the way of expenses, the threshold is significantly lower. The threshold is also significantly different if you're willing to live in one of the outer boroughs.

It's a vague answer but honestly, those factors can swing the threshold almost $100K in either direction.

min 100k if single but don't expect to save anything

+1. Looking around, most of my NYC peers are 25-35 with no kids, and a typical monthly spend is $6-7k. It's a good life, but not glamorous. Some months are substantially more expensive, almost no months are substantially cheaper.

How do you spend 6k a month ?

Uncapped stimulation and convenience. A typical month may look like this -

  - Manhattan rent: $2k-$4k (depends if you are sharing or living alone)
  - Not cooking: $1-1.5k ($5 lattes, $15 salads, $20 meals, x 30 days)
  - Socials & drinking: $1k (~$150 x 4-6 per month)
  - NYC events: $1k (gigs, comedy clubs, festivals)

Young professionals with established careers do not move to NYC to think about how much they could save if they lived in Tennessee instead. The narrow focus is to soak up available opportunities and maximize revenues, instead of minimizing costs. It's a risky gamble.

If one has kids are you kidding? Daycare is about the same as the rent, transportation is cheap but adds up for sure, food (to cook at home, yes we're frugal that way and shop at TJs for about 600 a month) and bills. Yes, some months you manage to save a little bit but other months very quickly dent into the savings.

I agree for kids. The parent mentioned not having kids though.