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Re:The inconvenient truth about love and divorce (2016) by marchenko on Sunday December 02, 2018 @05:51AM (#18581807)
The real inconvenient truth is that marriage still works best as 'an economic institution designed to build wealth and raise children'. It is the best vehicle we have designed for doing those things; other arrangements have proven sub-optimal. It may also accommodate other needs, but those are secondary. Ironically, those who realize this tend to have happier, more loving marriages.
Re:The inconvenient truth about love and divorce (2016) by hyperpallium on Sunday December 02, 2018 @11:13PM (#18586273)
Sounds like Dirty Jobs' don't do what you love, love what you do https://youtube.com/watch?v=NT1i26RbrhM&t=8s

I've heard that arranged marriages end up as loving relationships. If choosen as compatible and with no choice but to make it work... plausible. Or it could be that people put up with damaging situations.

Re:The inconvenient truth about love and divorce (2016) by pm90 on Sunday December 02, 2018 @11:48PM (#18586388)
Arranged marriages are still marriages and come with the same issues. Couple of factors why they succeed often is:

* compatibility is established by design

* usually, its a union of families, which creates a wider social circle that helps out the newlywed couple through difficulties

Personally, I believe that _any_ two people living together and sharing so much will inevitably end up loving/hating each other. You simply can't be indifferent to people who are in such close social contact with you for so long.

Re:The inconvenient truth about love and divorce (2016) by graycat on Monday December 03, 2018 @12:20AM (#18586506)
Good that you mentioned the two families. And having 3-4 generations all right there is a big help.

Also helping are having kids if only because it creates and orders the TODO list when a baby cries or a child needs food, shoes, etc.

Also helping are well established ROLES. Both husband and wife already know in good terms what they are to do.

Also helped was the village church and the weekly services emphasizing family formation.

Also helped was village social pressure, at times really severe.

Re:The inconvenient truth about love and divorce (2016) by dbt00 on Monday December 03, 2018 @12:46AM (#18586614)
There's also specific pressure creating cultural conformity; if you need to go to your mother in law when your husband is an asshole, you and your mother in law had better agree on what being an asshole is and how he should change. This creates a bias towards cultural stability but also limits unions involving social outsiders or non-traditional marriage partners.
Re:The inconvenient truth about love and divorce (2016) by btilly on Monday December 03, 2018 @12:46AM (#18586617)
Another factor not to dismiss is that cultures with arranged marriages also generally allow husbands to beat their wives. Therefore the marriage "works out"...or else.

Or put another way, you can find a standard by which the marriage worked out. But is it a relationship that the people involved would want to freely choose?

Re:The inconvenient truth about love and divorce (2016) by rayiner on Monday December 03, 2018 @02:43AM (#18587041)
That’s true. But arranged marriages (quasi-arranged marriages) are common even among folks who live in cultural subsets where wife beating is frowned upon (those who moved to the West or run in westernized circles). Those marriages seem just as happg as any others.

Part of the problem as I see it is that folks in the west often use their freedom to select for stupid things. (Omg she likes the same music!) My cousin just got matched up with someone where the criteria was: “she’s an engineer, her family is respectable and she’s not too religious.” I suspect it will be a good match.

[dead]
Re:The inconvenient truth about love and divorce (2016) by solveit on Monday December 03, 2018 @01:00AM (#18586671)
Wives do beat their husbands, I'll grant you that. But I'm going to want to see one hell of an impressive citation before I believe that they are "just as likely to beat their husbands".
Re:The inconvenient truth about love and divorce (2016) by girvo on Monday December 03, 2018 @01:47AM (#18586817)
Not that I'm agreeing with the grandparent comment, but this is a pretty great paper discussing that.

They're not just as likely to beat their husbands, but violence against children appears to be 50-50; family violence vs. intimate partner violence, basically.

https://www.dvrcv.org.au/sites/default/files/Mens%20as%20vic...

Re:The inconvenient truth about love and divorce (2016) by TheCoelacanth on Monday December 03, 2018 @06:19AM (#18587924)
That appears to be a study from Australia. Not exactly a country well known for arranged marriages.
Re:The inconvenient truth about love and divorce (2016) by rayiner on Monday December 03, 2018 @02:37AM (#18587014)
In Bangladesh where I’m from (a “moderate” country) 80-90% of women are victims of domestic violence. The women do not hit back; that would get them killed.
Re:The inconvenient truth about love and divorce (2016) by watwut on Monday December 03, 2018 @02:03AM (#18586878)
Physical violence is more likely to be done by husband - by factor 10:1. Verbal abuse is less unequally distributed.

The rates of both depend on a lot of factors like culture, employment rates of males, employment rates of women, etc.

Re:The inconvenient truth about love and divorce (2016) by dbt00 on Monday December 03, 2018 @12:42AM (#18586600)
Do you know people with arranged marriages? They work and I don't judge, but it's based on a very different cultural paradigm than what we're (mostly) used to the west; I certainly wouldn't call them happier than modern western marriages I'm familiar with. There's a lot more extended family negotiation when there are problems, rather than direct communication.
Re:The inconvenient truth about love and divorce (2016) by distant_hat on Monday December 03, 2018 @04:03AM (#18587350)
The problem is that they are often prone to emotional abuse and occasionally physical abuse. The option to not leave means people (usually women) put up with a lot. E.g., here is an article https://www.thehindu.com/society/sum-of-her-parts-why-are-th... on why organ donors in India are mostly women. Arranged marriages allow this kind of coercion to happen. There is a lot of other stuf why it doesn't work very well, if you expect to be equal partners.
Re:The inconvenient truth about love and divorce (2016) by watwut on Monday December 03, 2018 @02:00AM (#18586868)
I dunno. Violence in marriage is less frequent now then it used to be. Part of that is changing status and opportunities of women, but part of that is when people treat marriage as economic arrangement then what they get is mini startup with hard way to leave.

That era also have a lot of jokes about marriages that ends up with both partners despising each other and calling each other names.

Re:The inconvenient truth about love and divorce (2016) by k__ on Sunday December 02, 2018 @08:01AM (#18582142)
What are the other arrangements?

Couldn't we simply have tax breaks per children and be done with it?

Re:The inconvenient truth about love and divorce (2016) by Nomentatus on Sunday December 02, 2018 @12:46PM (#18583397)
The most common other arrangement in this society is serial monogamy (the original comment by marchenko means "stable marriage is the best", not "a bunch of marriages in a row are the best".)

In other cultures, the most common other arrangement is to give the child's mother's brother (uncle) all the rights and responsibilities that we give to the biological father/husband. The uncle rears the child, with the mother. Marriage can exist in those societies but gives no rights over the child, and no or few responsibilities. (Might be time to consider offering this as an option for people in this society, at least.)

Children are little consoled by tax breaks, in my experience. Single mothers can't stay home on a tax break, since there's no income to get that break from.

Re:The inconvenient truth about love and divorce (2016) by WaddyJones on Sunday December 02, 2018 @02:19PM (#18583949)
Is being raised by ones uncle really more popular than being raised by ones grandparents, on a global scale? Somehow I doubt it. In many Asian countries being raised by grandparents is the norm but being raised by an uncle would be more of an uncommon arrangement.
Re:The inconvenient truth about love and divorce (2016) by Nomentatus on Sunday December 02, 2018 @02:44PM (#18584113)
By unique societies studied, over time - not by numbers of individuals. This is what I was told in Anthropology class.
Re:The inconvenient truth about love and divorce (2016) by Robotbeat on Monday December 03, 2018 @12:53AM (#18586646)
I find that unlikely. I mean, what if there are no brothers? If, for sake of argument we say there are always exactly two children per family (approximation for stable population size and if some brothers die or move), there's about a 50:50 chance that a woman won't even have a brother to help raise the children.

Seems super unlikely to be the "most common" (by number of societies) arrangement when it only can work like 50% of the time in a society that DOES decide to do it. Was your Anthropology professor pulling your leg?

Re:The inconvenient truth about love and divorce (2016) by dragonwriter on Monday December 03, 2018 @09:03AM (#18588775)
> If, for sake of argument we say there are always exactly two children per family (approximation for stable population size and if some brothers die or move),

Stable population size in any significant society is a very new thing, not historically common. Basing your assessment of historical likelihood on societies being assumed to have a trait that basically no premodern society did probably isn't reasonable.

Re:The inconvenient truth about love and divorce (2016) by mavelikara on Monday December 03, 2018 @10:28PM (#18595901)
I am from a part of the world - Kerala, India - where the matrilineal inheritance [1] was common up until about 50 years ago. This system worked as the GP described.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marumakkathayam

Re:The inconvenient truth about love and divorce (2016) by geezerjay on Sunday December 02, 2018 @02:11PM (#18583905)
Tax breaks doesn't help share both parenting tasks and paeenting influence.