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Re:Chip wars: China, America and silicon supremacy by jerf on Friday November 30, 2018 @03:24PM (#18572283)
"America has legitimate concerns about the national-security implications of being dependent on Chinese chips and vulnerable to Chinese hacking."

I've lately been having this fantasy, or day dream perhaps, where China or the US declares war on the other. The world cowers in fear at the impending catastrophic conflict, yet as the hours drag on, it becomes clear that nothing is happening. It turns out that the only net effect of the declaration of war is that 10 minutes later, every piece of military equipment either country has was bricked by the other's hackers and both militaries are now more-or-less sitting on their butts, twiddling their thumbs.

In which case the victory goes to Russia, I suppose.

Re:Chip wars: China, America and silicon supremacy by jamesjyu on Friday November 30, 2018 @03:47PM (#18572484)
Cixin Liu (of Three Body Problem fame) has a new novel called Ball Lightning that talks about this exactly. Not a great book in terms of character development or plot, but is chock full of intriguing military + technology scenarios. Worth a read.
Re:Chip wars: China, America and silicon supremacy by glalonde on Friday November 30, 2018 @04:39PM (#18572905)
newly translated. He wrote it 3 years before TBP
Re:Chip wars: China, America and silicon supremacy by notSupplied on Friday November 30, 2018 @04:29PM (#18572811)
Fantastic read. The scale of the problem escalates so suddenly, I always love how ambitious the scope of his stories are.
Re:Chip wars: China, America and silicon supremacy by sfgunn on Friday November 30, 2018 @05:55PM (#18573500)
He makes me not care about character development, the science is so titillating on its own.
Re:Chip wars: China, America and silicon supremacy by AlexCoventry on Friday November 30, 2018 @07:18PM (#18574042)
I know what I'm reading tonight.
Re:Chip wars: China, America and silicon supremacy by exhilaration on Friday November 30, 2018 @05:00PM (#18573098)
it's on Audible, thank you!
Re:Chip wars: China, America and silicon supremacy by wybiral on Friday November 30, 2018 @04:07PM (#18572632)
Both sides would be trying to leverage their influence over other nations to adjust the balance so it could be a stalemate if neither side amassed enough support.

And, arguably, the cold war was similar and it seemed to have a net positive impact on research and development for both nations... It was just a matter of who could run the longest.

Re:Chip wars: China, America and silicon supremacy by thinkling on Friday November 30, 2018 @05:37PM (#18573386)
I've long thought that if I were the Chinese strategists, I'd be putting backdoors into infrastructure products shipped to the US like cable modems and routers. The moment conflict breaks out, China would brick a large percentage of the US internet. Good luck downloading clean firmware during that shitshow.
Re:Chip wars: China, America and silicon supremacy by nickpsecurity on Friday November 30, 2018 @06:45PM (#18573857)
The DOD said in the past a lot of fake chips from China were getting into American systems. It's an inspiration for things like Trusted Foundry Program.
Re:Chip wars: China, America and silicon supremacy by 3pt14159 on Friday November 30, 2018 @04:28PM (#18572808)
It's a fantasy.

Enough gear isn't networked or has fallbacks. C2 on the other hand, I'm less sure of. The French were so disturbed that they hacked the computers used by very senior people in the American military that they told the Americans so they would secure it better.

Far more likely is that both sides (other than Trump himself, maybe) know to default to standing down and absorbing the first blow then retaliate, if needed.

Re:Chip wars: China, America and silicon supremacy by jerf on Sunday December 02, 2018 @07:08PM (#18585411)
"It's a fantasy."

Oh, absolutely, total collapse is a fantasy.

How serious would the degradation be, now, that's an interesting question that probably literally nobody can answer.

But it's an amusing fantasy, and just connected enough to reality to not be in same nonsense realm as an alien eliminating all weapons or something.

Re:Chip wars: China, America and silicon supremacy by ethbro on Friday November 30, 2018 @05:18PM (#18573242)
This. Non-embedded software folks are far too quick to assume everything is consumer-grade crap.

Is there military crap? Sure. But part of the reason for double-price contracts is hardening and properly securing software.

Folks don't just sit at the Naval War College twiddling their fingers.

Re:Chip wars: China, America and silicon supremacy by thinkling on Friday November 30, 2018 @05:39PM (#18573397)
Imagine conflict breaking out and China disrupting most of the US's consumer network infrastructure. (read: everyone's DSL/cable modem and some amount of data center equipment.) The chaos and mayhem would be enormous.
Re:Chip wars: China, America and silicon supremacy by ethbro on Friday November 30, 2018 @06:21PM (#18573664)
Feasible. But let's not pretend it would stop nuclear ICBMs from launching.

Which is, paradoxically, why massive numbers of traceable nuclear weapons + early warning actually make the world a safer place. (At least for major-power, global conflicts)

Re:Chip wars: China, America and silicon supremacy by ghettoimp on Friday November 30, 2018 @07:48PM (#18574197)
I could easily be wrong, but it's hard for me to imagine that waging war is the Chinese objective here. Wars are costly, and destructive, and unpredictable.

But tech espionage would fit nicely into a different, long-term game. There is (of course) a lot of work left to do spread the modern economy to the rest of their country. But if they can do that, they will have a huge population advantage and be the largest market in the world. Meanwhile they are already competitive (if not dominant) in manufacturing. So what's left? Tech.

If they can become competitive with (or even leap-frog) the West technologically, they'll really be the de-facto leader of the world in every economic dimension.

Re:Chip wars: China, America and silicon supremacy by curuinor on Friday November 30, 2018 @04:26PM (#18572779)
That's why our nuclear weapons run on floppy disks...
Re:Chip wars: China, America and silicon supremacy by paxys on Friday November 30, 2018 @04:18PM (#18572713)
A US-China "war" is going to be mostly economic rather than military.
Re:Chip wars: China, America and silicon supremacy by AlexCoventry on Friday November 30, 2018 @07:19PM (#18574046)
Let's hope so, but why are you so confident?
Re:Chip wars: China, America and silicon supremacy by njarboe on Friday November 30, 2018 @08:07PM (#18574287)
MAD is still in effect?
Re:Chip wars: China, America and silicon supremacy by SubiculumCode on Friday November 30, 2018 @07:21PM (#18574055)
Re:Chip wars: China, America and silicon supremacy by fmajid on Friday December 07, 2018 @10:04PM (#18633629)
Read also "Ghost Fleet" by P.W. Singer and August Cole.