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Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by fredley on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @04:37AM (#18550315)
One thing that's becoming near-impossible is finding places to drink (as in pubs or bars) without piped music. This contributes significantly to noise. It's done of course so that we shout ourselves hoarse trying to have a conversation, so we buy more drinks to lubricate our throat, but even formerly quiet pubs near me have started doing it.
Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by philpem on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @04:53AM (#18550385)
I help organise events and it's been our biggest complaint for some venues: that as the afternoon progresses, the music gets so loud it's impossible to hold a conversation.

We pass the complaints along, but the response is usually "Corporate insists we do this, we hate it too, apparently it makes people buy more drinks".

In practice, at least from the data I've gathered, it drives people away.

Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by briandear on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @11:12AM (#18552641)
> In practice, at least from the data I've gathered, it drives people away

It would really depend on the venue, but I managed and worked in a few bars and clubs in the mid 2000s and the daytime crowd preferred more quiet, but then in the evening, if the music was soft, there was a perception that the bar was “dead” or had fewer people tha. It actually did. A loud bar with few people gets more interest from the potential patrons because it’s perceived as more lively and crowded than it may actually be. Then it creates a self-fulfilling prophecy and actually becomes more lively and crowded. When your business is based on customer volume, quiet and contemplative is a fast way to go out of business. Exceptions are high end, romantic martini bars selling $18 drinks or scotch bars selling high end spirits to a discerning clientele. For your average brew-pub or standard “bar,” silence equals death. You can see this anywhere there is a strip of bars and clubs, the quiet places are the ones not selling as much. Most people go to bars at night for the purpose of socializing and having fun. Most bar patrons don’t associate “fun” with quiet. Anyone that has worked in the bar business knows that you make more money with loud than you do with quiet — with some exceptions of course.

Restaurants on the other hand, in my experience, quiet does better for the restaurants that have been around awhile, while loud and lively tends to prop up the newer places because the “energy” reinforces the “hype” around perceived popularity.

Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by blhack on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @05:53AM (#18550613)
Even worse is television in restaurants. There is this GREAT restaurant with near me with a little side room that has a really cozy fireplace in it (VERY rare for Phoenix). The lighting for the room, however, has been destroyed by the TV. Also who on earth wants to watch ads while they are eating dinner? It's mind boggling because the place is also somewhat high end.
Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by Ancalagon on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @02:10PM (#18554624)
Where is this? Im in Phoenix as well and would like to check it out!
Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by blhack on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @02:56PM (#18555057)
Dick's hideaway on 16th street and Bethany Home. Some of the best food I've ever had! Really lovely place but...just why on earth they have TVs in there? It just doesn't fit at all with the rest of the fantastic ambiance.
Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by brokenmachine on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @10:14PM (#18557741)
You could ask if they'll turn it off.
Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by dingaling on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @05:45AM (#18550572)
In the UK my partner and I have started going to Wetherspoons pubs. They're reviled in middle-class circles as a cheap, chavvy chain that buys-out traditional pubs but they're clean, friendly and QUIET.
Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by jlokier on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @09:47AM (#18551843)
I agree, although in my experience the Wetherspoons volume varies over the full range.

I have a local Wetherspoons and go occasionally. If it's quiet I'll stay. But sometimes it's unbearably loud just because it's packed with raucous people in a large, acoustically non-absorbent room, to the point that I hear "crackling" in my ears.

It's still much better than the pub next to it, which serves food I like, but is painfully loud all the time inside - even when it's completely empty. That's not acoustics. They play music at a hideous volume, and won't turn it down even when the place is empty - "company policy". I listen to music on headphones much of the day, sometimes quite loud. So it's not like I dislike music. Being the only two customers in a huge pub and unable to hear each other talk seems ridiculous to me.

We used to go regularly, for the food. Don't go any more - because of the music volume.

Another publike food place locally was really nice when we first went, shortly after it opened. It's become louder and louder each time we've visited - and now sadly that place is vetoed because of the volume too.

Again, it's because they play music ridiculously loud. It's lost the charm which I think was its selling point when they opened, and we won't go back.

Well, we joked we might go back wearing industrial ear defenders to make a point :)

At a fourth pub I went to an informal business meeting recently. It was afternoon, and not many customers yet. We had to ask them to turn down the music repeatedly just to hear each other.

Seems to be a theme. I'm not sure why they do it, because I doubt their staff or the other customers enjoy it much either.

Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by fredley on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @06:34AM (#18550752)
I'm familiar with Spoons, the main problem is that they have TV's visible from anywhere you're sitting (at least in the ones near me) that are incredibly distracting.
Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by mattmanser on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @06:00AM (#18550638)
Ugh, they're usually not clean or friendly, the staff are also usually incompetent and slow. I have been in them a lot over the years for various reasons and my best description of weatherspoons would be a bit shit.

That they don't buy a music license is a cost saving measure.

They're ok when they first open, but after a year or two get a bit of a run down feeling.

I also walk past one of my local ones occasionally at 9:30 in the morning, there's always a few old men already drinking pints of lager in there, it's sad.

Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by fredley on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @07:07AM (#18550879)
Old men drinking pints of lager in Spoons early in the morning is a national problem. It's basically treated as cheap daycare for elder relatives by some families - drop dad off with £20 first thing in the morning and pick him up at closing time.

The worst part by far is how they never sit together, they all sit individually alone.

Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by aembleton on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @07:30PM (#18557087)
That's a shame, I find the majority of them vary between OK and Excellent. The only ones I consider shit are Manchester Piccadilly, Monument in London, one in Carlisle and another in Hull.

There are also some really excellent ones such as one I found near the south downs. Can't exactly remember where but it had two roaring log fires in it. Great Malvern one is nearly as good.

Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by pbhjpbhj on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @05:31AM (#18550516)
I think the mechanism is supposed to be that you talk less, which in turn means you drink more.

Places serving food have piped music so you finish your meal more quickly so they sell more covers; you're unlikely to sit around chatting afterwards with music playing.

They also clear plates at the earliest chance providing an enhanced social pressure to finish.

Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by fredley on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @07:17AM (#18550919)
My partner and I are 'mystery shoppers' for restaurants. We have our bill covered plus a bit extra on top (but have to fill out hefty, detailed questionnaires afterwards).

One of the things there's always a whole section on is timing: every single interaction has a time-window in which it must occur. You must be greeted within (t1), you must be seated within (t2). Plates must be cleared within (t3), you must have a 'table touch' (is everything ok with your food?) within (t4), etc.

Some discrete note-taking is often needed (descriptions of all serving staff are required too). We're pretty good at it by now, but have been 'rumbled' once. You can tell when it happens—suddenly you start getting offered the opportunity to try all the different wines they have, for free, given free desserts. Of course it doesn't matter as the meal is paid for, and often slows down the service!

Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by mnw21cam on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @08:36AM (#18551286)
I personally hate it when a waiter comes up, interrupts my meal, and asks if everything is OK with my food. Are you seriously saying restaurants are being encouraged to do this?
Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by dpeck on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @09:21AM (#18551606)
It has to do with the timing of it, like gp mentioned. Current best practice is that that waiter should come by within a couple minutes of the food arriving to top off water and make sure your first bites were as expected so that any problems can be fixed early in the meal.

This is much preferred to a manager only hearing about a problem after all the food has been eaten or the customer has sat staring at a plate with unsatisfactory food on it while their companions eat (making everyone less comfortable as generally humans don’t like to eat when others haven’t had the opportunity to).

Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by jimison on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @11:14AM (#18552666)
My father believed that truly great restaurants don't do this, because they KNOW their food is perfect.

Practically speaking, though, dpeck is right... shortly after the food is dropped, the waiter should confirm the meal is to the customer's expectations. This is also the chance for customers to ask for condiments, get a replacement fork for the one they dropped, etc. Nothing worse than sitting in front of a hot meal you can't eat and being unable to get the waiter's attention.

Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by jaclaz on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @12:42PM (#18553623)
>Nothing worse than sitting in front of a hot meal you can't eat and being unable to get the waiter's attention.

That would be "Waiter come taste the soup":

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094898/crazycredits?item=cz000...

More seriously, it all depends on the "level" of service, and - ultimately - on the ratio waiters/served people, which is usually between 1/6-1/10 (excellent service) and 1/25-1/30 (scarce or lacking service).

Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by 4ad on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @05:12PM (#18556167)
If I need something, I'll ask for it. When I visit the US there is nothing more annoying to me than waiters interrupting my meal.
Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by mikewhy on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @08:53AM (#18551405)
Yes, it's important to the restaurant to know if your meal is okay while there's still a chance to do something about it. It's also a chance to ask for anything else without a restaurant of people flagging down the wait staff.
Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by umanwizard on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @09:15AM (#18551566)
Somehow other cultures (IME: China, many parts of Europe, Korea) do fine with people being expected to flag down wait staff when they want to talk to them.
Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by leetcrew on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @11:37AM (#18552930)
interrupt and polling based models each have their own pros and cons. neither is inherently better than the other.
Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by brokenmachine on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @10:36PM (#18557855)
As per the name, only one of those models actually interrupts your meal though. Quite often it's literally as I'm chewing the first bite. So by those metrics, the most irritating waiters would have the best times.

My pet hate is when I'm asked questions while I'm actually eating and I'm expected to answer with a mouth full of food.

I always dreamed of a restaurant that has call buttons on the table, like in a plane or hospital.

Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by leetcrew on Thursday November 29, 2018 @03:51PM (#18563866)
> My pet hate is when I'm asked questions while I'm actually eating and I'm expected to answer with a mouth full of food.

I definitely understand that this can be very annoying, but like I said, there are tradeoffs to both. Being a bit socially anxious myself, I prefer not to have to compete with the other diners for the server's attention, so the polling model is better for me.

as an aside, when I go to nicer restaurants I find that the servers tend to be more skilled/graceful. I don't know exactly how they do it, but they always seem to come by at the perfect moment to check whether the food is okay without interrupting a bite/conversation.

in theory, call buttons would be pretty nice, but I think some people would find it to cheapen the experience.

Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by umanwizard on Thursday November 29, 2018 @11:19AM (#18561311)
> call buttons on the table

A lot of Japanese and Korean restaurants (and maybe more) have exactly that.

Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by philpem on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @09:30AM (#18551694)
"A single terrible Tripadvisor review could be the end of our massive chain!!!!111one"
Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by ajb on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @12:46PM (#18553691)
It generally seems odd to me, but at my job we used to go at lunch time to a place which didn't do this, and they would simply lose one person's order some of the time (i'd say 1 in 10). It's really annoying to be the one person whose food hasn't arrived yet wondering for ages if they are being slow or have forgotten. This extra touch gives them the opportunity to find out that they forgot something without completely pissing off the customer.
Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by pbhjpbhj on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @11:12AM (#18552646)
Hate is a bit strong; it annoys me too, probably more than is reasonable.

I assumed it was to cut costs for people who complain at the end to try and get free food.

Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by ben0x539 on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @09:21AM (#18551613)
This is restaurants hiring someone to check on their own staff, isn't it?
Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by jimison on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @11:16AM (#18552692)
How do you covertly take notes in a restaurant... on your phone?
Re:How Restaurants Got So Loud by 4ad on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @05:04PM (#18556121)
A few years back, here in Vienna bars didn't turn on TVs for a whole year (there was a notice on the TVs about how they can't turn them on for some reason, and to complain to $WHOEVER, not sure of the details). It was magnificent.

Even better, one pub didn't have music at all. It was the best pub in town, and that's not just my opinion because it was one of the busiest pubs.

I wish it were like that again.