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Re:Silent and Simple Ion Engine Powers a Plane with No Movin... by jessriedel on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @03:37PM (#18505858)
> As planes use most of their energy to not crash into the ground

Not disputing you, but do you have a quick argument for this? My understanding is that passenger planes fly at high altitudes because at lower altitudes (higher pressures) they would expend most of their energy pushing air out of the way.

Re:Silent and Simple Ion Engine Powers a Plane with No Movin... by ThrustVectoring on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @09:05PM (#18507461)
>My understanding is that passenger planes fly at high altitudes because at lower altitudes (higher pressures) they would expend most of their energy pushing air out of the way.

The way I think about it is that commercial flights spend the vast majority of the time at "cruising speed", where the engines are most efficient on a power/fuel basis. The flight already dissipates 100% of engine power output into pushing air out of the way, so what altitude does is determine what airspeed that happens at. At lower altitudes, there's more air molecules displaced per foot of travel, so the airspeed is lower.

So airplanes fly up at 30k feet because it's faster at the same power output, which also happens to be more fuel efficient, but it's not like the plane runs the engines any harder if they cruise at a lower altitude.

Re:Silent and Simple Ion Engine Powers a Plane with No Movin... by soperj on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @03:59PM (#18506053)
at high altitudes there's also a lot less turbulence.
Re:Silent and Simple Ion Engine Powers a Plane with No Movin... by TheSpiceIsLife on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @05:03PM (#18506472)
At high altitudes there’s also a lot less ground.
Re:Silent and Simple Ion Engine Powers a Plane with No Movin... by ccozan on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @04:27PM (#18506247)
so why not use jets to reach cruise altitude, then switch to ion thrusters ( for which you don't need fuel )?
Re:Silent and Simple Ion Engine Powers a Plane with No Movin... by ghayes on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @06:24PM (#18506870)
In the video included in this article [https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/11/small-drone-soars-on...], the subject discusses that ion thrusters are less effective at higher altitudes as the air is rarified.
Re:Silent and Simple Ion Engine Powers a Plane with No Movin... by fwip on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @06:15PM (#18506835)
Ion thrusters still need "fuel" in the form of electricity from batteries.

These ion thrusters have worse thrust/watt than an electric propellor drive, and far worse than the jet engines they use.

So there's not really any reason to use ion thrusters at cruising altitude, unless the relative silence is worth paying a lot more per-ticket.

Re:Silent and Simple Ion Engine Powers a Plane with No Movin... by girvo on Thursday November 22, 2018 @01:59AM (#18508370)
> These ion thrusters have worse thrust/watt than an electric propellor drive, and far worse than the jet engines they use.

From the Ars article (for others who were curious about this):

> Measurements showed the thrusters collectively generated five newtons for each kilowatt of power, which is actually similar to the output of jet engines. But because of many inefficiencies in the system, the overall efficiency was only about 2.5 percent—well below that of conventional aircraft.

Re:Silent and Simple Ion Engine Powers a Plane with No Movin... by taneq on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @06:51PM (#18506977)
> So there's not really any reason to use ion thrusters at cruising altitude, unless the relative silence is worth paying a lot more per-ticket.

Even then, I'd imagine that a significant portion of the noise in an airliner is wind noise rather than engine noise. Your plane is only going to get "less noisy", not "silent". Good noise canceling earphones are a far better solution (I have some specifically for plane flights, they're awesome!)

Re:Silent and Simple Ion Engine Powers a Plane with No Movin... by mrfusion on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @09:15PM (#18507491)
Potentially lower maintenance costs with no moving parts. Plus potentially cheaper to manufacture.
Re:Silent and Simple Ion Engine Powers a Plane with No Movin... by ccozan on Thursday November 22, 2018 @06:27AM (#18509340)
And also need to transport only a fraction of the jet fuel
Re:Silent and Simple Ion Engine Powers a Plane with No Movin... by fwip on Saturday November 24, 2018 @01:37AM (#18520818)
But many more pounds of batteries.
Re:Silent and Simple Ion Engine Powers a Plane with No Movin... by gaius on Thursday November 22, 2018 @09:32AM (#18510180)
so why not use jets to reach cruise altitude, then switch to ion thrusters ( for which you don't need fuel

Because you would need to restart the engines to land, and that is when they are at a higher risk of failure. You could maybe throttle them right back but keep them ticking over.

Re:Silent and Simple Ion Engine Powers a Plane with No Movin... by soperj on Thursday November 22, 2018 @12:18PM (#18511196)
only reason you want no noise is for take off and landing. No one really cares once it's at cruising altitude.