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Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by cutler on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @06:47PM (#18498962)
Simple. Put a ceiling on rents. Allow no-one to own more than one home and insist they live in the one they own. In the UK we have a "bedroom tax" but it is aimed at the poor, not the rich as it should be. Make it illegal to discriminate against anyone based on their income source or the state of their health. Build housing exclusively for low-income occupants instead of throwing everything onto the insidious property market. Ban property markets altogether and replace them with government-regulated allocation. No. Thought not. No-one is really serious about solving the world housing crisis. So long as politicians rely on the comfortable middle-class for their survival nothing will change.
Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by pascalxus on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @07:00PM (#18499028)
And this is exactly why the bay area is in such terrible conditions. Every bit of regulation you add, only decreases the housing available. more regulation is what got us into this mess. The less regulation we have, and less zoning, the more housing we'll have, it's that simple. We simply need more housing, lots more. once that happens prices will come down.
Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by collyw on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @03:49AM (#18501133)
> We simply need more housing, lots more. once that happens prices will come down.

When the majority of politicians or their partners own second homes, that ain't going to happen.

Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by lubujackson on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @08:24PM (#18499480)
This is so illogical.

For one, who is going to build these properties for low-income people only? Costs will be almost the same, profits will be way less. So why would a developer bother?

In fact, the recent change to require a higher percentage of low income units in new structures has killed the pipeline for new building starts.

Even if it seems counterproductive to the goal of helping low income people, historically new building starts have always been aspirational. Which makes sense - everyone wants a new car, but if you have little money you are better off getting a reliable used car. It is exactly the same for housing. When someone moves into a new condo that opens up a unit (and lowers the price incrementally) for someone who has less to spend.

Would it make sense to force carmakers to build cheap cars that only low-income people are eligible to buy?

Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by axilmar on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @04:55AM (#18501408)
How about building new better houses for the rich or the richer, and so the old houses would be left for the poorer?

Why not deal with the problem by manipulating the supply side of the equation?

Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by cutler on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @10:17PM (#18499915)
You're thinking purely within a capitalist framework. There is no capitalist solution to this problem. The solution is unprofitable. I encourage you to think outside this framework as humanity itself is at stake not just profits.
Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by com2kid on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @07:33AM (#18502180)
Capitolist solutions exist to this problem, democracy keeps voting them down.

Remove the majority of zoning, and the free market will solve the housing problem quite quickly.

Sure houses will be up next to each other, and they'll be smaller, and the yards will cost even more than they do now, but housing will be affordable.

Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by idontpost on Thursday November 22, 2018 @01:32PM (#18511624)
> Remove the majority of zoning

Sure, factories with toxic waste in residential neighborhoods are a great idea!

> Sure houses will be up next to each other

And we learned nothing from the massive urban fires othe 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries apparently.

All these onerous regulations you whinge about exist because thousands of people DIED from the conditions they outlaw.

Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by com2kid on Saturday November 24, 2018 @08:56PM (#18524983)
Majority of the rules, not all.

Remove set backs, get rid of minimum yard requirements, loosen height restrictions.

The rest of the world has houses right next to each other, as do America's most prosperous cities.

Manhattan, the dense parts of SF, Boston, Chicago, etc.

The regulations about minimum grass and 4 foot of set back and no more than 1 or 2 stories, have nothing to do with fire regs and everything to do with long disproven ideas about suburban design that hark back to 1950s ideals.

Visit a modern dense city, Tokyo and London don't have massive fire outbreaks (sprinklers and modern fire codes still work even at density), but they do have an insane about of economic activity in the dense neighborhoods.

Want to solve the housing crisis and get people off the streets? Dump 50% more houses on to the market, heck have cities subsidize their construction if need be, and watch housing prices plummet. Watch mass transit become the life blood of a city, and watch entire new types of jobs become available. (People in NYC may be annoyed at bike messengers, but it is a job created by density!)

Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by cbkeller on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @10:51PM (#18500035)
Ok, so I could imagine rent control would work fine in (e.g.) the bay area if there was also (1) Government-built (or heavily subsidized) housing to get around the fact that rent control limits the capitalist demand for new housing (2) Strong central government to force out NIMBYs for the greater social good

In this context, would you agree that rent control seems counterproductive unless we were to switch to a socialized economy overall?

> There is no capitalist solution to this problem.

I'm curious if others here would agree with this; I don't have a strong opinion yet.

Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by conanbatt on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @12:16AM (#18500302)
Really, housing is where capitalism breaks down.
Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by com2kid on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @07:39AM (#18502205)
Zoning screws with the free market. Look into how Japan does zoning[0] to see evidence that weak zoning laws and strong enforcement of individual property rights work together to keep property prices low.

[0] https://www.ft.com/content/023562e2-54a6-11e6-befd-2fc0c26b3...

Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by conanbatt on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @02:02PM (#18505093)
I was being sarcastic :)
Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by spookthesunset on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @07:54PM (#18499305)
> Put a ceiling on rents

Sorry, but this is the worst possible solution. Source: basic economics.

Rent control is one of the most dangerous "solutions" to high housing costs people ever toss out. It would destroy the housing market and make it vastly more expensive than it is now.

Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by cutler on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @10:14PM (#18499901)
Demonstrably untrue. Spend some time in Vienna or Berlin.
Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by deathanatos on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @12:47AM (#18500430)
> We find that landlords actively respond to the imposition of rent control by converting their properties to condos and TICs or by redeveloping the building in such as a way as to exempt it from the regulations. In sum, we find that impacted landlords reduced the supply the available rental housing by 15%. Consistent with this evidence, we find that there was a 20% decline in the number of renters living in impacted buildings, relative to 1990-1994 levels, and a 30% decline in the number of renters living in units protected by rent control.

> These results highlight that forcing landlords to provided insurance against rent increases leads to large losses to tenants

—The Effects of Rent Control Expansion on Tenants, Landlords, and Inequality: Evidence from San Francisco[1]

The study largely fins that, in addition to rent control causing the available supply to decrease, and tenant mobility/freedom to decrease, it largely harms new renters, and results in a wealth transfer to existing renters.

It does not solve the problem, and it does not on the whole benefit society.

[1]: https://www.nber.org/papers/w24181.pdf

Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by axilmar on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @04:52AM (#18501402)
Doesn't it seem to you that the problem is those regulations that can allow the exemptions rather than rent control?

I mean, if it wasn't possible to exempt a building from the regulations, there wouldn't be an issue with rent control.

Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by nostrademons on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @07:59PM (#18507269)
When you don't allow exemptions from rent control, you get something like the Bronx in the 1970s, where landlords set fire to their own buildings to collect insurance money rather than rent them out. [1] There's always an exemption - if you don't provide a legal one, people will find an undetectable illegal one.

[1] https://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20100610/BLOGS01/30610...

Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by axilmar on Friday November 23, 2018 @06:14AM (#18515775)
The article you posted does not say anything about fire (I searched for the word 'fire').

Even in that case though, what was the percentage of buildings burnt because of rent controls? if it was extremely low (as in less then 0.01%), then there is no real problem.

Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by nostrademons on Friday November 23, 2018 @09:13AM (#18516485)
Search for "arson" instead.

There was a photo-essay of the devastation (seriously, it looked like a war zone) posted on HN about a month ago. I can't find the link now, but if you Google "pictures of 1970s Bronx", the Image Search links give you a sense.

Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by conanbatt on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @12:15AM (#18500297)
Eh, berlin is a city with the housing capacity in multiples of its population. You dont need to put any ceiling on rents to have them down.
Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by pcwalton on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @11:03PM (#18500074)
In this utopia, if you want to move into SF for work, then what happens, specifically?

Is it like Vienna, where you go on a wait list?

Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by dragonwriter on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @11:06PM (#18500087)
> Put a ceiling on rents. Allow no-one to own more than one home and insist they live in the one they own.

Doesn't the latter make the former moot, or is this a limit on rent of spare rooms in owner-occupied housing?

Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by hackeraccount on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @09:52PM (#18499833)
Regulations increase the value of goods and services by creating predictability. Competition reduces the cost of goods.
Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by cutler on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @10:14PM (#18499906)
So spake Adam Smith. Sorry but the Invisible Hand is a fairy tale.
Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by pcwalton on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @11:05PM (#18500083)
You know who disagrees with you on that? Karl Marx.
Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by cutler on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @05:48PM (#18506718)
Marx believed that capitalism tends to self-destruct which is diametrically opposite to Adam Smith's belief in capitalism's self-correcting Invisible Hand. I don't get where you're coming from.
Re:The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest... by ReptileMan on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @03:07AM (#18500969)
Build more highrises seems better solution. Asia builds them on the cheap and on conveyor belt. And they do fine.