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Re:Internet Vulnerability Takes Down Google by whitexn--g28h on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @07:33AM (#18440452)
Why do ISPs peer with China Telekom? BGP is built on trust, if a peer isn’t trustworthy why not drop them?
Re:Internet Vulnerability Takes Down Google by Aic1kuir on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @07:56AM (#18440564)
These routes can spill over many different paths. There is no central authority that would be able to drop them from the whole internet. Even if one Tier 1 ISP dropped them then their routes would just flow through another one. And good luck getting all of them to agree on that unless there's some massive, persistent abuse.
Re:Internet Vulnerability Takes Down Google by apathy on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @08:20AM (#18440701)
China and Nigeria are the types of state actors that might provide that sort of persistent abuse.

Two billion people living in an autocracy ... if Google still believed in Don’t Be Evil, this would not be acceptable.

Re:Internet Vulnerability Takes Down Google by manigandham on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @08:28AM (#18440741)
That’s just a corporate motto, not an actual belief. It was, is, and always be a meaningless PR phrase as empty as any other.

It just goes to show the power of branding and how much people attach to it.

Re:Internet Vulnerability Takes Down Google by apathy on Monday November 26, 2018 @07:52AM (#18532946)
It wasn’t always that way. There were people (especially in operations) that used it as a guide for certain decisions. I was disappointed when the slogan was retired.
Re:Internet Vulnerability Takes Down Google by eloff on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @09:01AM (#18440954)
I think a lot of people at Google do take that seriously. Don't be so cynical.
Re:Internet Vulnerability Takes Down Google by manigandham on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @01:54PM (#18443661)
Most people aren't evil, so that's not really special. Taking the statement seriously is the power of branding at work designed to drive employees.
Re:Internet Vulnerability Takes Down Google by berbec on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @11:49AM (#18442423)
On one hand, many people at Google do take it seriously. On the other hand, there are the people making decisions.
Re:Internet Vulnerability Takes Down Google by mariojv on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @09:12AM (#18441030)
I don't think Google has control over peering agreements. The way I understand it, ISPs/backbone providers would have to decide to drop peers from their BGP configs. Outside of calling up ISPs, I'm not sure what Google should have done differently, if anything.

edit/minor correction: I guess they'd have control over peering agreements for initial hops for Google Fiber users, but that wouldn't have resolved the issue in this case, either, unless they stopped peering with other huge providers like NTT. Even then, it'd only help their subscribers.

Re:Internet Vulnerability Takes Down Google by true_religion on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @08:55AM (#18440902)
Is it really going that far out on a limb to say that sharing the internet with China does not you “evil”?
Re:Internet Vulnerability Takes Down Google by yourbandsucks on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @08:29AM (#18440749)
What's unacceptable? Peering with Chinese networks?
Re:Internet Vulnerability Takes Down Google by Hikikomori on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @07:51AM (#18440543)
It wasn't even CT that was the cause this time, they just propagated what they got from another ISP. There could certainly have filters in place but that only really works for stub networks.
Re:Internet Vulnerability Takes Down Google by rahimnathwani on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @07:41AM (#18440485)
China Telecom is the 2nd largest domestic broadband provider, and the 3rd largest mobile operator, in China.

Lots of people live in China.

Re:Internet Vulnerability Takes Down Google by chongli on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @07:52AM (#18440550)
China has also made it their goal to bifurcate the internet in order to prop up their authoritarian state. I don't see why the rest of the world should play along with that. It's frustrating in the extreme to see big Western companies repeatedly bow to the Communist party's wishes only to get all of their IP stolen by a domestic clone with the backing of the government.
Re:Internet Vulnerability Takes Down Google by yorwba on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @08:35AM (#18440787)
> China has also made it their goal to bifurcate the internet in order to prop up their authoritarian state. I don't see why the rest of the world should play along with that.

China doesn't need anyone to play along to prevent their population from accessing the global internet. Right now, at least the rest of the world can access Chinese websites. A blanket ban on peering with Chinese ISPs would really bifurcate the internet. I'd count that as "playing along".

Re:Internet Vulnerability Takes Down Google by yourbandsucks on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @08:23AM (#18440718)
Then the solution is more connectivity rather than less, no?
Re:Internet Vulnerability Takes Down Google by rahimnathwani on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @07:59AM (#18440585)
Which 'big Western companies' got 'all of their IP stolen'?
Re:Internet Vulnerability Takes Down Google by MadraRua2000 on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @08:21AM (#18440705)
https://www.fireeye.com/content/dam/fireeye-www/services/pdf...

To answer your question, most large companies have been subject to cyber espionage by the chinese military for several years. This accounts for the speed at which China built its manufacturing base in strategically important industries and its ability to rapidly copy products and the required tooling for their manufacture.

The Mandiant report I linked to above focused on tracking the activities of a single but prolific APT group responsible for hacks in 150 major companies worldwide for 7 years since 2006, and that they believe is actually a team of cyber espionage professionals from within the Chinese military.

Also just for fun: Anyone here drive a Range Rover Evoke? Heres China's version:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landwind_X7

Re:Internet Vulnerability Takes Down Google by rahimnathwani on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @08:31AM (#18440767)
What you wrote after "To answer your question" doesn't answer my question.
Re:Internet Vulnerability Takes Down Google by IOT_Apprentice on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @10:08AM (#18441479)
Westinghouse Nuclear for one.
Re:Internet Vulnerability Takes Down Google by mtgx on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @08:03AM (#18440604)
Which haven't? Even Google was hacked by the Chinese military.
Re:Internet Vulnerability Takes Down Google by solotronics on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @12:42PM (#18442919)
BGP is a system build based on two things primarily in this order - shortest prefix to reach an IP ( 99.99.99.0/24 takes precedence over 99.99.0.0/16 ) - shortest number of "hops" measured by how many AS paths it takes to get somewhere ( if you have multiple ways to get to 99.99.99.0/24, the way with the last number of autonomous systems "AS" in it wins )

So the result is that you have to somewhat trust who you are peering with, and who they are peering with, etc. to the other end of the traffic.

A bad actor can make lots of chaos.

Re:Internet Vulnerability Takes Down Google by ElBarto on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @08:29AM (#18440751)
BBC reports that the error was with the Nigerian ISP, not China or China Telecom:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-46194279