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Re:The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker by Aunche on Monday November 12, 2018 @12:32PM (#18434036)
Progress is incremental. A Foxconn worker has a much higher standard of living than his father who worked in a toy factory. His father had a higher standard of living than his grandparents who were subsistence farmers. This wouldn't happen if everyone had to pay twice as much for devices.
Re:The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker by asianthrowaway on Monday November 12, 2018 @12:43PM (#18434116)
I doubt doing farmwork 12 hours a day is worse than doing the same mundane repetitive action 16 hours a day.
Re:The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker by Aunche on Monday November 12, 2018 @01:21PM (#18434447)
You're correct that farming is likely better than factory work. It might even be more rewarding writing code 9-5. The problem with subsistence farming is that you might starve to death if a drought, flood, or disease kills half your crops.
Re:The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker by asdff on Monday November 12, 2018 @01:38PM (#18434571)
And in the modern U.S., the very same can happen to the working poor if they loose their job, or an unforeseen expense comes up to make paying for life's necessities suddenly impossible. Perhaps even at the same rate that a natural famine once every decade or so has killed off the poor; last season at least 80,000 people died in the U.S. from the flu [1], a disease that disproportionately affects the working poor and homeless due to poorer overall health. Not much has changed for the poor in this modern world even if they aren't subsistence farmers.

[1] https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/26/health/flu-deaths-2017--2018-...

Re:The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker by umanwizard on Monday November 12, 2018 @05:58PM (#18436784)
You were responding to a comment about starving to death with some info about flu deaths...

Starving to death is indeed very, very rare in the United States.

Re:The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker by asdff on Monday November 12, 2018 @10:43PM (#18438373)
But evidently flu deaths are not so rare. Just as starving to death is a consequence of economics for the farmer, dying of the flu is a consequence of economics for the poor in the United States. One cannot pay for food during a famine, and the other cannot pay for health services during the yearly epidemic.
Re:The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker by umanwizard on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @01:10AM (#18438989)
What is your point exactly? That industrialized civilization isn’t actually better than abject rural poverty, because a tiny minority of people still die of poverty-related causes? How do the numbers stack up on each side?

80,000 people is less than 1 in 3750 Americans — I’ll take my chances with those odds over living somewhere with regular famines.

Re:The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker by TylerE on Monday November 12, 2018 @01:21PM (#18434456)
Working in a modern factory and living in a dorm vs living in a rice paddy with no power, no running water, no transportation other than walking.
Re:The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker by twblalock on Monday November 12, 2018 @02:33PM (#18434986)
> I doubt doing farmwork 12 hours a day is worse than doing the same mundane repetitive action 16 hours a day.

Then why do Chinese farmers line up outside the gates of factories hundreds of miles from home in the hope of getting a job? If farming gave them an equivalent or better quality of life, they would just stay at home and keep farming.

Re:The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker by asdff on Monday November 12, 2018 @02:54PM (#18435157)
Because their cousin is sick. Because they want their daughter to go to school in the city and move up the socioeconomic ladder. Because their parents are injured and can no longer work. These jobs require sacrificing all of your personal freedom to support others. They require enduring human rights abuses themselves to so others don't have to work this very job. The reasons why farmers are leaving their fields isn't for their personal well being at all, it is altruism.

The intensity of farm work isn't even comparable. You aren't toiling in the fields doing the same exact thing for hours every day, every month, every year like you do in a factory. Most labor happens during harvest and planting seasons, maintenance labor throughout the year is focused on improving your living conditions or other local projects, something you can't do if you are working for the factory. Unfortunately, things come up that can only be fixed with immediate or continued access to capital, so you have to send one of your family members hundreds of miles away to work in a factory to fuel an emergency fund. The problem with farm work isn't the work, it's the lack of enough pay to deal with disaster.

Re:The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker by reaperducer on Monday November 12, 2018 @03:27PM (#18435431)
Then why do Chinese farmers line up outside the gates of factories hundreds of miles from home in the hope of getting a job?

Because they've been forced to relocate from their farms to manufactured cities by the government which then bulldozed their villages.

Then once they're in the city, their choice is to work in the greenhouses of a big government-backed company, or work in the factory of a big government-backed company.

There are many documentaries about this.

Re:The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker by newaccoutnas on Monday November 12, 2018 @12:41PM (#18434105)
I take your point, but a higher standard of living that has increased suicide rates? If we think about the results of those products, as the consumer isn't going to be buying directly from Foxconn but integrated into something from Apple or the like, then is that a 'fair' distribution of wealth made from the final product. It's a tricky one, for sure
Re:The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker by Aunche on Monday November 12, 2018 @01:00PM (#18434264)
The suicide rate of Foxconn has always been significantly lower than the US. Part of the reason is because healthy, working adults aren't likely to commit suicide in the first place. Even so, in 2010, which was by far the worst year, 14 Foxconn employees committed suicide out of 930,000 employees [1]. The US suicide rate is 13.7 out of 100,000 [2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_r...

Re:The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker by claudiawerner on Monday November 12, 2018 @01:08PM (#18434333)
It's worth noting that there are qualitative differences to be considered, and people committing suicide at that rate (or any rate at all) should be investigated to address the conditions of these workers. To simply look at a comparison of the rates misses out that different factors and motivations drive these suicides.
Re:The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker by eeZah7Ux on Monday November 12, 2018 @05:50PM (#18436731)
Why the downvotes?

Suicide rates are also very biased by how employers, friends and family, and authorities handle the death.

Across many cultures people tend to underreport suicides - but to different extents.

It's also worth noticing that some behaviors leading to death like overdose, heavy drinking and dangerous activities are not counted as suicide but sometimes they share the same psychological conditions.

Re:The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker by newaccoutnas on Monday November 12, 2018 @01:38PM (#18434572)
Interesting, thanks
Re:The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker by news_to_me on Monday November 12, 2018 @12:38PM (#18434080)
I wonder how many subsistence farmers committed suicide.
Re:The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker by icebraining on Monday November 12, 2018 @12:55PM (#18434216)
Well, 79% of suicides in China (2009-2014) were in rural areas. There was a massive drop in the country's rate as people moved to urban areas.

As a related note, during the worst year, Foxconn had 930k workers, and 14 deaths by suicide, so approximately 1.5/100k.

In the US, all age groups above 14 have a suicide rate over 10/100k.

Re:The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker by tzs on Monday November 12, 2018 @12:58PM (#18434238)
I haven't seen anything on subsistence farmers in particular. The closest is the general rural population. Around 80% of Chinese suicides are from the rural population, and the overall Chinese suicide rate is an order of magnitude bigger than the Foxconn suicide rate.
Re:The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker by PeterisP on Monday November 12, 2018 @06:05PM (#18436826)
Southeast Asia has a very, very large problem with subsistence farmer suicides. Some programs such as restricting access to human-poisonous pesticides have helped where they were implemented, but yes, if you're worried about suicide, you should look at the rural areas, not at the factories.

Coincidentally, the same seems to be true in USA - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/06/why-are-amer...

Urbanization is a powerful force; it happens because people want to leave the rural life behind, and as it continues, it pushes the contrast ever more in favor of urban life; people move to the cities because of the opportunities, economy and culture there; and as they do so, they "carry" even more opportunities, economy and culture away from the rural areas to these cities.

Re:The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker by opportune on Monday November 12, 2018 @09:22PM (#18437912)
progress is only incremental because of this absurd belief that any improvement in your life means you have no room to complain - it's how we in the west justify the continuing imperialism of the developing world that we destroyed