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Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by jahaja on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @10:35AM (#18336840)
> but it also gets you labelled an evil racist nazi klansman

But you are a racist [1].

I wonder how common it is to do these brief checks through the comments of users that seems just a bit off. Too often there's a pattern.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18331992

Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by sj3k on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @12:48PM (#18338639)
yiiiiiiiiiikes
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Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by dang on Wednesday October 31, 2018 @03:16AM (#18343851)
We've banned this account for turning two unrelated threads into massive racial flamewars in the last 24 hours.
Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by lifeformed on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @11:01AM (#18337124)
You plainly said that black people are genetically incapable of being held to the same ethical standards of white people. Come on dude, get out of here.
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Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by kalenx on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @11:44AM (#18337775)
Again, this is plain racism. This is the precise definition of judging a group of people solely based on their race. Refuse to see that things like IQs and crime rate can be affected by so much factors than race if you must. Say "black people exhibit higher crime rate, so it must be genetic" while overlook the mere spurious correlation behind it, but at least acknowledge it. You are racist.
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Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by kalenx on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @12:51PM (#18338668)
Fair enough. Have your motte and bailey.

You said (verbatim) : "Holding black people to the same standard as white people when they are genetically incapable of meeting that standard seems like a much bigger problem"

True, you did not define "standard". Then you attack people when they infer you're talking about ethics, or crime rate, or whatever other interpretation. Sure, but you were definitely not talking about the ability to cook a Thanksgiving turkey. If you do not want your writings to be open to interpretation, then be specific.

> When someone states the objective fact that black people have lower IQs than whites or Asians, that is not racism.

No, but saying that this is because of their genetic is. Because you have no reasoning backing that other than "they're black, so there could not be any other reason explaining the lower IQ". Same thing for crime rate. Crime rate is a fact, not racist in itself. But facts do not make discussions. No one brings a fact just to leave it there. You bring it to back up an opinion. And this opinion can definitely be racist.

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Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by yesenadam on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @07:41PM (#18342178)
try to assume good faith

That is something you conspicuously failed to do dozens of times on this page. The other person is always missing the point, didn't read what you said, falling victim to one myth or another, disingenuous, irrelevant, fixating, making absolutely no sense, slipping in thing at the end after the red herrings, seem eager to put words in your mouth ...

It makes for super-tiresome reading. This is not a productive method of communication. (That was you complaining about the other guy yet again.)

Please consider that you are just one person among many on here, and that you may seem as ignorant, misguided, irrational, unfair, impossible-to-argue-with, prejudiced to them as they apparently seem to you. And please be more considerate in future. Be civil. Don't be snarky.

Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by kalenx on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @05:52PM (#18341582)
Here is just one of your incorrect inference :

> Black crime rate being high explains black arrest rate being high.

Where is the causality here? Sure, there is a correlation and sure, it may be seen as a reasonable argument, but like your point before about CO2 not being a problem, you completely overlook that there could be many causes for the same event.

How is your fact about crime rates invalidating the position "there is racism amongst police forces"? The effect of the higher crime rates _and_ racism are not mutually exclusive.

But you choose to rather adopt a point of view where every situation can apparently be 100% explained by a single cause. And that cause is that black people are not "up the standard" -- whatever standard you are talking about.

Yup, that's racism.

Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by lifeformed on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @02:01PM (#18339549)
"Ethical" was added as a clarification, since you were talking about crime.
Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by jahaja on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @10:50AM (#18336981)
> Could you direct me to the organization responsible for selecting which facts go on the list of "you are racist for stating these facts"?

Kindergarden.

> It is very concerning to me that I am now a thought criminal and therefore anything I say is incorrect.

And rightly so after that comment.

Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by deialtrous on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @11:02AM (#18337131)
Kindergarden is not an organization. If you want to decree that people who commit wrongthink offenses are by definition incorrect in everything they ever say, you need to provide a list of wrongthink offenses. I don't even know what you think is racist about that comment, much less how anyone could logically extrapolate that everything I say is wrong as a result.
Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by jahaja on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @11:20AM (#18337387)
Since what you call facts are clearly bullshit I think it's perfectly reasonable to "logically extrapolate" that henceforth everything you write should be assumed to be bullshit unless proven otherwise.
Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by elbear on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @11:31AM (#18337535)
From what I can tell, people have a problem with the fact that you said that "blacks are genetically incapable". Why do you think it's genetic? Why not cultural, social, economic?
Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by deialtrous on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @12:21PM (#18338285)
Because none of the factors you list explain the difference. There is 100% scientific certainty that there is a genetic basis for the racial IQ divide. This was never a real debate, it was always reality being attacked by ideologues. But modern technology has simply side stepped the ideologues shouting "racist pseudo-science" at facts they don't like. Over a dozen specific genes have been isolated that affect IQ, both positively and negatively. The distribution of these genes in racial groups is as would be expected based on the measured IQs of those racial groups. Many people were conned by the "IQ isn't real it is racist pseudo-science" lie. I do not believe "DNA isn't real it is racist pseudo-science" will be as effective.
Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by kalenx on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @11:49AM (#18337847)
Well, to be more specific: literally any handbook about statistics will explain the difference between correlation and causation.
Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by deialtrous on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @12:33PM (#18338456)
And what does that have to do with anything I said?
Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by kalenx on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @12:52PM (#18338687)
Because again, there is a difference between stating a fact and wrongly inferring from it.
Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by deialtrous on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @03:53PM (#18340695)
This is not a productive method of communication. You need to clearly state what you mean instead of expecting me to spend 5 comments asking questions to try to extract an actual meaning from your post. I have no idea what you think I inferred. I did not confuse correlation with causation, so you need to explain clearly what you think I mean, since it is not what I said.
Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by apazzolini on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @10:27AM (#18336749)
> That won't do anything. CO2 is not the problem, too many people is.

CO2 is a problem.

This year's Nobel prize in economics was awarded to Bill Nordhaus [1] for figuring out the economic impact of carbon based emissions. He, along with many climate scientists and economists, think that this is the most market-aligned way to reduce the impact of climate change.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Nordhaus#Nobel_Memoria...

Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by deialtrous on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @10:41AM (#18336893)
>CO2 is a problem.

Not the problem the article is talking about.

Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by lifeformed on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @10:54AM (#18337035)
Overpopulation is not the problem at all, it's only the symptom of the problem. It's the natural result of poverty and poor living conditions. A rise in standards of living is directly correlated with lower birth rates. Improve life for the poor and birth rates will drop to a sustainable 2 kids per couple. We need to work on bringing everyone up to a point where sustainability is even possible. We can't just exploit the world and then blame those who live in systems that offer no alternative.
Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by deialtrous on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @11:00AM (#18337108)
>A rise in standards of living is directly correlated with lower birth rates.

No it isn't. That is based on a single observation, increasing standards of living in the 20th century in western nations. Living standards in western nations were increasing before that and birth rates were not declining. Living standards stopped increasing decades ago, and birth rates have not gone back up. So the evidence that this is even true in western nations is quite poor, but there is no evidence at all that it holds true in other cultures.

>We can't just exploit the world and then blame those who live in systems that offer no alternative.

It isn't about blame, it is about solving the problem. You can not give 5 billion Africans a western standard of living, that is not a physical possibility. So we need to prevent the 5 billion Africans from happening while there's still only 1 billion Africans. We're not trying to prevent 5 billion Europeans from happening because the European population is falling, not rising.

Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by usaar333 on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @11:07AM (#18337202)
It's true in East Asia as well.

In fact, where is it not true?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_and_fertility

Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by deialtrous on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @12:36PM (#18338496)
>It's true in East Asia as well.

No it isn't.

>In fact, where is it not true?

Everywhere? Nothing in your link contradicts what I said already. You can only make the correlation if you cherry pick start and end dates, and cherry pick western nations or nations that had coincidental birth rate declines like China. If the correlation is real and not spurious, then why doesn't it hold now? Why didn't it hold before the 1930s? Why has it never existed in Africa?

Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by usaar333 on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @01:28PM (#18339130)
How is it not true in East Asia? The rich countries (Japan, South Korea) have super low fertility rates; the poor ones have higher (North Korea). Can you point out some clear violators?

The inverse relationship is obvious in South Korea:

https://tradingeconomics.com/south-korea/gdp-per-capita

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SPDYNTFRTINKOR

Before the 1930s, every country was "developing" my modern definitions. (US real GDP/capita was ~$9k in 1929 just before the recession). Also, other factors are necessary for this to happen (e.g. women empowerment)

Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by codyb on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @10:37AM (#18336865)
Logged in to downvote this. What bullshit.

CO2 is absolutely a problem, and promoting birth control does not get you called a nazi klansmen.

What are you going on about?

Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by deialtrous on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @10:43AM (#18336913)
Please explain how CO2 is causing people to burn forests, wiping out ecosystems and killing millions of animals. You know, the subject of discussion.
Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by kalenx on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @11:54AM (#18337926)
Well, to keep things simple :

- CO2, as a greenhouse gas, increase the Earth surface temperature

- This temperature increase causes droughts/floods/other extreme meteorological events

- Lands that used to be arable aren't anymore, because of these events.

- People need to feed themselves, so they need new lands.

- They burn forests, wipe out ecosystems, and kill millions of animals in the process.

Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by deialtrous on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @12:38PM (#18338519)
But that hasn't happened. These people did not lose land from "extreme meteorological events". They simply exhausted the stored fertility in the soil, and it is cheaper to burn another chunk of forest than it is to purchase fertilizer. A hypothetical scenario that could happen in the future does not explain the actual scenario that the article we're discussing is about.
Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by kalenx on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @12:55PM (#18338728)
False dilemma. Of course over exploiting arable lands contribute to this problem. But it does not mean it is the only cause.

You'll have a hard time in this world if you believe that every problem has a single source...

Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by ajross on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @10:13AM (#18336608)
> CO2 is not the problem, too many people is.

Proximate vs. root cause nitpickery isn't a solution either.

It's entirely possible to get carbon output down to sustainable levels without genocide. You're simply wrong here.

Re:Humanity has wiped out 60% of animals since 1970, major r... by deialtrous on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @10:42AM (#18336904)
Getting carbon output down will not do anything about the massive ecological destruction this article is about. That's the point. And where on earth does genocide come into this from?