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Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by bentona on Monday October 29, 2018 @09:48AM (#18327484)
I am completely unprepared for any degree of civilization collapse.

Articles like this, however, make me wonder if there is a strategy that will leave me more prepared than the average person, but not involve devoting my entire life & pool of resources to a bomb shelter in the outback. We insure against other unlikely but catastrophic events through various types of insurance - are there any demi-preppers out there?

Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by czechdeveloper on Monday October 29, 2018 @10:13AM (#18327670)
I still believe that this is 90% of "preppers". They study it for a week, make some arrangements an then just let it go. Revisit those arrangements once a year or so and you are golden.

Generally you aim at basics.

* About 3 weeks worth of food (2000 kcal/person/day)

* Week of water (gallon/person/day), some basic water filtration (Sawyer squeeze)

* Some preps may be more in line with local climate (backup heating for cold environments)

* Evacuation bags are very common and are also known as BOBs (but most are garbage with lots of guns and no water). Still good to make some with copies of important documents, some water and spare clothes. Just get your old spare bag and unused clothes, no need to overthink it.

* Think about having more first aid material and skills

* Hygiene can be pain once your toilet does not flush anymore and you can't wash your hands, make some arrangements for that too (ie. bucket and plastic bags are way better than nothing)

* I'd also consider tools, such as headlamp per person, other depends on location and needs. Axe can be useful even in city in case of earthquake. Fixed blade knife is probably most versatile tool and Morakniv companion for 15 USD is usually sufficient. But I would suggest some practice here too, you don't want to get cut during temporary service disruption.

Good luck. As German governmental pamphlet states "Germany is ready, when every German is ready". Replace with your own country :).

Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by servercobra on Monday October 29, 2018 @10:46AM (#18327924)
As a bonus, this gets you half way to a backpacking kit! I've got almost all of this, minus the food and water, always packed and ready in my closet (not for society ending, but as an earthquake kit and convent way to store camping gear). Just add a tent, sleeping bag/pad, and a suitable backpack, and you can head out to the great outdoors!
Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by SlowRobotAhead on Monday October 29, 2018 @10:42AM (#18327892)
I don’t care about the overly sensitive downvotes because HN has been turning more into Reddit anyhow but - you left out firearm.

In any “without rule of law” scenario you need a real means of protection. While this may be a shocker to some people if you try and fight with a knife, even if you have edged weapons training, there is a great chance you are going to bleed as well.

I hope people who have had the state tell them they don’t need a firearm never have to figure out that should have been their own choice to make.

Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by 3chelon on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:06AM (#18328074)
And this is the problem with preppers in general. I don't know if it's too much Walking Dead or just a mindset they have to start with, but as someone else pointed out they seem to be far more obsessed with guns than with clean water, sanitation and heating.

Guns aren't very common in my country so I'm not worried about gun-toting locals rampaging around. Sure, a few might raid a military base or a farmer's shotgun cabinet, but statistically I think my family would be under far more threat from hypothermia, cholera or an infected scratch.

Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by t1540825608 on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:23AM (#18328232)
No, this is the problem with media representations of preppers. It's a massive overgeneralization to say that preppers "seem to be far more obsessed with guns than with clean water, sanitation, and heating."

With that said, the reality is that clean water, sanitation, and heating are pretty darn boring. It's like prepping 101 to have some available water, a shovel, and a barbecue or a fireplace or a basement to keep warm. If preppers do seem to you (apart from media misrepresentation) to focus more on guns, it's likely because they're long past having basics like food and water taken care of, and guns are more varied than any of the other basic needs.

Every place is different, and maybe guns are less important in your country, but they're very important during collapses in America, whether we want the world to be that way or not. Look back on the social breakdowns in America over the past--the LA riots come to mind--and look at how locals used guns to defend their stores and homes from looting. And those looters were just rioting; they weren't hungry or fighting for survival.

Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by 3chelon on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:49AM (#18328455)
I'll grant you that the media representations are bad. I've never met a real live prepper, only ever seen them on TV, and I guess the ones they interview on TV are the ones who make the best TV.

You're right the basics are boring, but it's the basics you'll spend 24/7 trying to obtain long after your weapons and ammo have gone rusty. And if you think you'll be making your own ammo, I'd say no-one at all will have the luxury of that kind of engineering time when they're trying to get the ground to grow enough food to eat.

Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by SlowRobotAhead on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:21AM (#18328211)
What is it you think happens to your police and government guns when there is no rule of law?

I’ll give you a hint, there’s a reason the Taliban was walking around with Soviet era AK-47s, and Isis was walking around with US-made M-16s.

Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by pjc50 on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:27AM (#18328262)
I'm going to post this elsewhere in the thread, but a comment on Metafilter from someone who survived the siege of Sarajevo: https://www.metafilter.com/78669/What-if-things-just-keep-ge...

"Guns and weapons helped no one directly and were even of little to no use in the defense of Sarajevo, since they were toys compared to the shells, bombs and high-powered armaments of the attacking forces."

Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by manfredo on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:59AM (#18328559)
There's a broad category of social turmoil that is life threatening but not quite the magnitude of "professional military starts attacking citizens." Say bands of political extremists of whatever flavor start attacking towns, or other smaller-scale (in comparison to outright civil war) acts of violence erupt. I don't dispute your anecdotes from the Balkans, but using it as blanket proof to say that firearms won't ever be of benefit in times of civil unrest is not effective.
Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by 3chelon on Monday October 29, 2018 @12:46PM (#18328918)
You are right, but that's not really an apocalypse but a localised civil war. Admittedly, it would be good to be prepared for that, but I think leaving the area altogether would be a more optimal solution than grabbing weapons.
Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by manfredo on Monday October 29, 2018 @12:58PM (#18329023)
Sure, but leaving the area means abandoning a place of shelter, community, and potentially a decent chunk of supplies. I agree, plenty of disasters wouldn't warrant use of firearms, but having them and not needing them is considerably better than needing them and not having them. Seems like one is strictly better than the other. I suppose possession of unnecessary firarms could risk having them stolen or otherwise ending up in the hands of people doing harm - but seeing as 30-40% of US households possess firearms, this is a moot point.
Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by czechdeveloper on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:28AM (#18328280)
Well, my 3 weeks of food were not aimed at this "End of world as we know it" scenario and original question was not aimed at one. Just at being better prepared than average.

Guns really are also not "get and forget" kind of think. They can help or get you killed.

They might get you killed by mismanaging them (basically you shoot yourself by accident), by making you overconfident and not escaping in time, by making you a target "to get your guns", by making you suspicious (imagine checkpoints in now occupied parts of Ukraine) and getting killed in interrogation.

Guns are not all advantages in real world situation.

Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by SlowRobotAhead on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @10:28AM (#18336754)
>Guns are not all advantages in real world situation.

I wish I could explain how ridiculous it is to remove an option from yourself before a situation arises... but if you don’t already understand that, how could I explain it?

I also think having a fire extinguisher and jumper cables / jump box is a disadvantage in your bizarro scenario where “you might shoot yourself” comes up.

It’s a little funny low obviously little experience you have with firearms - but absolutely trust agents of your government who have maybe 2-3 weeks training once during accedemy with them. Those agents are the ones not coming to help though.

Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by czechdeveloper on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:02AM (#18328046)
I did, because I don't own one and focusing on guns discourages people from preparing even for basic service disruption.

Focusing on guns just make it look like prepping is just for "gun-nuts" (as much as I don't share that opinion).

Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by SlowRobotAhead on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:27AM (#18328267)
That’s the thing though, it doesn’t matter how much stuff you have, without a way to keep it you won’t keep it.

In a without rule of law scenario there is no one coming to help, say to protect you from someone bigger stronger faster or more clever than you that did not have a prepper foresight.

Que the famous Samuel Colt quote, right?

Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by ahje on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:15AM (#18328145)
Having access to a ranged weapon is defenitely a plus. Even if complete absence of law and order is a somewhat unlikely scenario, a ranged weapon will also make things like hunting for food easier.

In many places, there are quite heavy restrictions on firearms, and obtaining one without breaking the law might simply not be legal for everyone. Most such countries don't outlaw the use of bows and arrows though...

Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by TeMPOraL on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:26AM (#18328259)
My country apparently doesn't outlaw possession of a flame thrower. Not sure if it would be helpful in the case of civilizational collapse, though.
Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by ahje on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:35AM (#18328330)
It can be used for heating canned food, which is a plus I guess. :D
Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by carry_bit on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:24AM (#18328235)
There are a wide range of scenarios you can prepare for; not all of them require a firearm. As long as you what you're preparing for, that's fine.
Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by SlowRobotAhead on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:28AM (#18328272)
Isn’t an effective means of defense for yourself and your family a high priority in most scenarios?
Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by Cthulhu_ on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:00AM (#18328023)
Wasn't the US right to bear arms mainly aimed to overthrow a government in case it sucks? Well now's the chance.

But for the US, I agree, I don't trust Americans to be civilized when the shit hits the fan - it's every man for himself there. Which is why the country is failing.

Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by t1540825608 on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:12AM (#18328124)
Stack your pantry deeper than average -- buy the same food you always buy, but keep 2-3x as much shelf-stable food on hand. Pasta, rice, flour, peanut butter, tuna, shortening, etc. all keep for long enough without any serious degradation in quality. Fill a water barrel[0] and put it in the back of a storage closet. Grab a Sawyer filter[1] in case that's not enough. Get a simple pump shotgun[2] and a 100 rounds; practice with 50 and save the other 50 in case you need to defend your home.

Congratulations, you've bought insurance for the medium-term societal collapse for about $600 or so.

[0] http://a.co/d/cT00rup [1] http://a.co/d/eroGWNy [2] https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/Mossberg-Maverick-88-Securit...

Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by jdmichal on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:20AM (#18328204)
Biggest addition I can make, as someone who has to prep for hurricane season every year:

If you don't have a filter -- and even if you do, depending on what your water sources are -- be aware of how much water your planned foodstuffs will consume. Stuff like dried pasta and flour holds very well, but also consumes a pretty large amount of water to get to a usable state. Canned beans and vegetables and such come with their own water in the package, so they don't use your stores.

EDIT: Don't forget that energy will also be constrained, not just water! Presoak your dried beans and pasta to drastically reduce the amount of energy necessary to cook them.

https://www.seriouseats.com/2013/05/ask-the-food-lab-can-i-s...

Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by t1540825608 on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:25AM (#18328250)
That's a great point, thanks!
Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by twinge on Monday October 29, 2018 @10:38AM (#18327859)
Start with a realistic but not "end times" scenario: something like an extended power outage (2-6 weeks). Be ready to take care of yourself and people in your household. If you've got any leftover time/energy/skills/resources, organize with your neighbors. Are there any medical professionals in your neighborhood? How about people with useful skills for rebuilding (ham radio operators, electricians, civil engineers, etc.)? Look for CERT programs in your area, they're a good start.
Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by ahje on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:34AM (#18328325)
Starting out with preparing for the the more likely scenarios is definitely easier (and most likely more effective) than preparing for Illumunati death squads chasing survivors amongst the zombie hordes in a nuclear wasteland.

Personally, I find it very likely that there will be some kind of short-term (less than 30 days) disruption here, within the next ten years. I live on the countryside and in the north so it's really just a matter of time before the climate changes screws up the weather to such an extent that we get snowed in. Likewise, it's not really that far fetched to expect an extended power outage or flooding.

Medium to long-term disruptions are much less likely (although still possible), but in those cases it's much more important to make sure one's local community can co-operate to make sure actual food production and maintenance of critical infrastructure is handled.

Once that part is handled, prepping for nuclear war, uprisings, alien invasions, zombie apocalypses and so on will be easier (as the basics are covered) and quite a fun hobby. It will also be useful as it will keep skills, that would otherwise be lost to time, alive and well.

Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by VBprogrammer on Monday October 29, 2018 @09:53AM (#18327513)
I think this is a pretty good treatment of the subject for someone who doesn't yet qualify for the tin-foil hat.

http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/prep/

Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by briffle on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:09AM (#18328103)
I have family that are 'preppers' but they aren't so much anti-government wacko's as they are government employees in the PNW that have seen the reports of what happens if 'the big one' comes (the Cascadia subduction zone)and how many bridges/airports will collapse. My little county did a study, and found they would become a dozen 'islands' because of how many bridges over rivers/large streams would collapse.

I keep about two weeks worth of supplies (food, water, wool blankets, etc) around, because its going to take a long time for federal assistance to arrive.

Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by Liquix on Monday October 29, 2018 @09:56AM (#18327538)
You may be able to 'soft prep' by just laying out and running through a basic plan. Where you would go if shit hit the fan, who you would contact, how you would contact them with ISPs/cell towers out, where you would get clean water, how you would get food, etc.

That way you're more prepared than 95% of people if something catastrophic were to go down, but you've only spent a weekend's worth of time and $20 on a pack of walkie-talkies. There seem to be diminishing returns where you're giving up current quality of life/free time for increasingly smaller 'preparedness' value.

Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by XorNot on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:14AM (#18328143)
The answer to every question regarding "where would you go" is "nowhere, unless there's imminent localized danger".

There's a reason most state-level disaster relief advice starts with "stay in your homes" unless there's actual flood waters rising or something - because masses of people suddenly moving about is a pretty good way to create a whole bunch of disruption and disaster.

Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by Taylor_OD on Monday October 29, 2018 @10:21AM (#18327727)
If you have enough water/food in your house for you and your family/roommates for 7 days you will be more prepared than most. That would cost you about $25-$50 in water jugs and another $50 in meal bars or something similar.
Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by sgt101 on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:56AM (#18328518)
Honestly : go out and engage with your community.

If things go wrong you will be far more likely to get by if people know you, like you and are prepared to look out for you or throw you a bone. Your neighbours probably won't look after you unless you are an exceptional person, but they may well feed your family once or twice, help you board up or fix a roof (on the tacit understanding that you will do the same for them) or trust you more than the scary bunch in pickup trucks.

Really - social ties would count more than anything. Collective action is much more potent than machine guns.

Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by georgeecollins on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:24AM (#18328240)
There are little things that everyone should do. If you live in a place where an earthquake may disrupt tap water, keep some water in your house. If you live in a very hot place, keep some water in your car. If you live in a place where it gets very cold, keep some blankets in your car. Have some flashlights and a battery powered radio, a fire extinguisher and a first aid kit. You don't have to be planning for the end of the world for that to make sense.
Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by rojobuffalo on Monday October 29, 2018 @10:37AM (#18327849)
A non-hardcore checklist would look pretty similar to a camping checklist. I have a storage bin with this stuff that I can throw into my truck and head to the country side.

- [ ] water: a LifeStraw or some kind of filtration system and a couple storage containers (maybe 2 7-gallon containers)

- [ ] food: dried fruits, beans, rice, whatever other dry food you want to pack. if you keep it in a container in your pantry you can just eat it whenever and try to keep it replenished

- [ ] shelter: a tent

- [ ] tools: fixed blade knife, solar flash-light/lantern, fire starter, shovel, axe, rope, tarp, compass, whatever you want to grab from REI or Home Depot.

- [ ] first aid: they sell kits at REI or you can assemble your own

Keep these things in a reliable place, maybe a tote in the garage; and keep your car in good shape (gassed up, tires are good, have a flat tire kit, jumper cables, maybe a spare battery, spare gas); and you'll be pretty reasonably prepared.

Some bonus items:

- [ ] a gun or bow for hunting

- [ ] some seeds for gardening

- [ ] some dry fertilizer for gardening

Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by astrodust on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:08AM (#18328087)
There's also the all important other item: Experience.

If you've never had to survive in the wild before, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by justtopost on Monday October 29, 2018 @02:04PM (#18329629)
Bingo. I would be more confident and useful with a loincloth and a small knife than most of my weekend roleplayer 4x4 buddies with their jeeps loaded out with full survival kit. Watched a guy spend 2 hours trying to light wet kindling with some fancy flint thing, I used a bic. Most of the outdoors industry is all image now, decent equipment is inexpensive, so its 'lifestle marketing driven' now. Preppers included.
Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by astrodust on Monday October 29, 2018 @06:43PM (#18332316)
It's the "tactical everything" lifestyle crowd versus someone who just knows what they're doing.

All fancy tools and no common sense.

Re:Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunk... by FrozenVoid on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @02:42AM (#18334376)
> Articles like this, however, make me wonder if there is a strategy that will leave me more prepared than the average person

Just buy some canned food(that you like) and few packs of bottled water. You're now more prepared than 90% of people. If you expect to evacuate from a local event, make some backpacking gear fitted with necessities and important stuff you need - tools,drugs/first-aid, documents,high-density foods. Like preparing an unexpected camping trip.

Bomb shelters and bunkers are for truly paranoid expecting doomsday scenarios occurring right on top on them, but basic preparedness is not particularly costly, unless you hoard tons of supplies that you can't use.