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Re:Christie’s sells its first AI portrait for $432k by creddit on Thursday October 25, 2018 @04:41PM (#18304393)
> I'm inclined to think that the general public underestimate contemporary art and the art world overestimate its superiority over the more conventional works.

I really like your framing of this and agree wholeheartedly. I think it really comes from contemporary art’s focus on abstraction and meaning within context. The combination of focus on abstraction and meaning while requiring the viewer to understand the context in which a work was made makes it very inaccessible to all but those who have the time and knowledge to develop that understanding from. This makes it very inaccessible to general audiences. Alternatively, so often the depth of the meaning/context and the effectiveness of the abstraction are quite underwhelming in reality but overly celebrated by the art world.

Re:Christie’s sells its first AI portrait for $432k by newswriter99 on Thursday October 25, 2018 @05:24PM (#18304708)
I disagree.

If you spent two minutes rolling some white paint on a white canvas because your "abstract message" was about the void of space, it's not profound, you're being an ass.

Conversely if you spent at least five hours stippling black spots on a white canvas in the image of some obscure shape, because you had a concept in your head, and it took a considerable amount of effort, THAT is a profound piece of work.

The art world isn't full of bohemians with time and knowledge who've developed understanding of abstractness. It's full of pretentious, bored, rich people. Huge difference.

Re:Christie’s sells its first AI portrait for $432k by 2bitencryption on Thursday October 25, 2018 @06:03PM (#18304985)
> if you spent at least five hours ... and it took a considerable amount of effort, THAT is a profound piece of work.

Got it. work >= 5hrs == TRUE REAL PROFOUND ART, work < 5hrs == UTTER GARBAGE PRETENTIOUS BULLSHIT.

Art is purely expression. It doesn't matter how long it takes you to express what you're expressing. Pollock may have just splattered painting on a canvas. But it was still a true expression. John Cage made a composition where the orchestra doesn't play any notes. But it's still an expression.

Re:Christie’s sells its first AI portrait for $432k by hobs on Thursday October 25, 2018 @06:14PM (#18305055)
And an expression can be boring and trite, and we can judge it for being such.

The fact that rich people are willing to pay for some bland expression does not confer anything but monetary value to it. It doesn't become less garbage.

Re:Christie’s sells its first AI portrait for $432k by justinator on Thursday October 25, 2018 @08:41PM (#18305879)
"Art is what you can get away with" – Andy Warhol
Re:Christie’s sells its first AI portrait for $432k by dagw on Friday October 26, 2018 @06:58AM (#18308160)
And an expression can be boring and trite, and we can judge it for being such.

Sure, but that in itself doesn't make it any less art. Saying "I find this art boring and trite and consider it garbage" is fine. Saying "I find this boring and trite and thus it's garbage and not art" is in my opinion not a valid argument.

Re:Christie’s sells its first AI portrait for $432k by gowld on Thursday October 25, 2018 @10:01PM (#18306192)
Pollack made beautifully balanced chaotic patterns, not merely spilled paint.

Cage made a recording of an audience waiting for music. The audience was the work, not the orchestra.

Re:Christie’s sells its first AI portrait for $432k by dahart on Thursday October 25, 2018 @06:28PM (#18305152)
What part do you disagree with? It sounds like you're agreeing fervently with the parent & GP comments...

That said, effort isn't generally what makes or breaks art, either in the gallery / collector world, nor among artists. Very, very few stippled paintings that took more than 5 hours of work are considered profound in any way. It's been done already.

Maybe you meant to imply skill, but skill isn't that important to art history either. Somewhat important, perhaps, but not generally in the top 3. Concept and narrative and novelty and luck all outweigh effort and skill, even among unpretentious skilled poor artists.

> The art world isn't full of bohemians... it's full of pretentious, bored, rich people.

I'd be careful to qualify that statement. There are lots more poor artists than rich people. When you say "the art world", if you're talking about Christie's and Sotheby's, then yes there are rich people. My personal "art world" is full of artists, and I don't pay attention to the stuff the auction houses are auctioning.

Re:Christie’s sells its first AI portrait for $432k by boomlinde on Friday October 26, 2018 @06:42AM (#18308098)
> The art world isn't full of bohemians with time and knowledge who've developed understanding of abstractness. It's full of pretentious, bored, rich people. Huge difference.

That's something one might conclude about the "art world" if their only impression of it is from hearing about high profile auctions of weird paintings sold for hundreds of thousands of dollars, which fits nicely in the general "rich people do the darnedest things" category of trivial news. Sure, someone with the right name can probably spit in a napkin and buy a car for the money, but in my experience this is a minority overwhelmed by people that can't even support themselves with their art, much less justify the cost of enjoying expensive works of art anywhere but in a gallery.

I know many artists with vastly different approaches to expression, none of which are rich, most of which also have to work day jobs to make ends meet. I don't think any of them would regard a white-painted canvas as particularly interesting.

Re:Christie’s sells its first AI portrait for $432k by guelo on Thursday October 25, 2018 @05:24PM (#18304704)
In that case accessibility would be enhanced by the artist writing down the meaning and context. But I take it that artists are loathe to do that because they fear that explaining it would make it lose it's mystique, kind of like how explaining a joke ruins it, so you basically end up with what amounts to elaborate inside jokes. OTOH, it probably helps drive up the price when the rich buyers feel like they're part of the secret in-group.
Re:Christie’s sells its first AI portrait for $432k by crucialfelix on Thursday October 25, 2018 @05:41PM (#18304821)
Artists almost always write an extensive explanation of what their work means.

It's got to the point of satire:

https://artybollocks.com/generator.html

Re:Christie’s sells its first AI portrait for $432k by amanaplanacanal on Friday October 26, 2018 @05:29PM (#18312841)
Err... the great majority of artists do no such thing. Do you have any idea of how many people do some sort of creative work as a hobby?
Re:Christie’s sells its first AI portrait for $432k by sitkack on Thursday October 25, 2018 @10:13PM (#18306238)
Re:Christie’s sells its first AI portrait for $432k by dagw on Friday October 26, 2018 @06:54AM (#18308143)
made makes it very inaccessible to all but those who have the time and knowledge to develop that understanding

Most halfway decent art galleries and museums are pretty good at providing very readable summaries of the exhibits they're putting on. Spending just 10-15 minutes reading the introductory text the museum provides is often all the background knowledge you need to gain a much greater, if not appreciation, then at least understanding, of what you are looking at.