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Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by hwillis on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:02AM (#18228976)
My Opa is struggling right now- mid 80s, thinking is getting very fuzzy, and he isn't exercising the parts (back) he needs to. It's causing his body to break down. The cartilage and disks in his ribcage and spine are collapsing, forcing him to hunch deeply (accelerating the degeneration) and crushing his lungs. If he had kept his back strong, it would have kept the stress off his tissues for decades. He would still be losing his sight, smell, and taste (horrible, for a chef), but maybe he would be less fuzzy.

My Opa is also the most hardcore motherfucker I've ever met. It's not that he didn't exercise. He still heaves around 80 lb bags of sand, he's building a goddamn cottage almost by himself, he's still almost immune to pain. He's the toughest man I know, and even on the days he has trouble with fairly basic spatial tasks he can multiply three digit numbers in his head faster than I can write them down. His short term memory is still better than mine. He's still smarter than me. He's so stubborn he keeps falling off ladders every week because despite how much he has lost he just refuses. to. give. up.

I can't understate how fucking scary it all is. The man is unstoppable when he puts his mind to something. Time has not worn down his will even a tiny bit. He breaks bones more often now, but he shakes it off, does the PT, and it's like it never happened. But even that isn't enough when age decides to take you. If your spine wilts, all the exercise and work in the world will not save you. When you can't sleep more than two hours at a time, what do you do? You can't force yourself to sleep. You just slowly go nuts, a little more each day.

Aging is the real process of senescence, not just of getting older. Dementia, weakness, and frailty all seem increasingly like symptoms of a larger bodily/immune system degeneration. The inability to exercise, the constant pain, the constant sleep deprivation- those things could give dementia to a young man too. You can stave off the bodily decay until you start aging, but not after. Some lucky few, the Jeanne Calments[1], seem to be basically immune to senescence. They follow the path you'd expect, of a body slowly wearing out. The rest of us eventually hit a point where our bodies suddenly start to break down, and things like exercise just no longer produce the same changes they used to. The systems that handle growth, repair, immune responses- they just stop.

I'm sorry if this is bleak, but it hurts to see him like this. I just spent a couple months helping him put up siding. He wants to finish that cottage so much. I hope it's not his swan song.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by TaupeRanger on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @11:09AM (#18229995)
Don't be too scared - the way we die now is still much better than the vast majority of humans that have ever died, even in the throes of dementia. The transience of health (and, by extension, life) is the great tragedy of all sentient life. The transience is a brute fact, the tragedy is an emotional response. We understand the brute fact very well, but can't change it. We understand the emotional response very little, and yet we have the ability to change it significantly.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by wonderbear on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:12AM (#18229039)
That is bleak. Yikes. Sometimes, though, it's good to face the reality that nothing is forever, including one's own mind.

I'm glad your Opa has you there with him though this stage.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by madeuptempacct on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:42AM (#18229267)
"he can multiply three digit numbers in his head faster than I can write them down"

As in e.g. 365 * 128? Or 365 * 8? The latter is realistic, the former is a bit unbelievable. Even the latter is a violation of the "magic 7"[0].

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Magical_Number_Seven,_Plus...

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by simias on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @10:30AM (#18229644)
That's a trivial detail of the parent's anecdote which may or may not have been exaggerated for narrative purposes and completely tangential to the point they were making. Given the subject matter it's pointless and a frankly bit insensitive to nitpick that IMO.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by madeuptempacct on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @10:50AM (#18229810)
I am really interested in measuring working memory and how it relates to IQ, hence the details.

I admit to not taking emotions into consideration here.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by Ensorceled on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @12:27PM (#18230668)
If you actually were interested, you would have asked for details rather than simply attacking the anecdote as implausible.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by vorpalhex on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @10:13AM (#18229516)
That's not quite right. Remember that grouped numbers count as a singular number within some limits. For example, if I was trying to remember a phone number in my working set: 1-2-3 4-5-6 7-8-9-0 that would be too large, but if I group the numbers: 12-3 45-6 78-90 then now it fits. Of course, most adults will remember that number like this: 123 456 78-90

When you're multiplying large numbers you only need around 5 or 6 items.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by hwillis on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @12:19PM (#18230613)
The former- it's something of a party trick for him. Most people can chunk up to 3 digit numbers, so you really only need to remember 4 numbers (original two, result, and temp). When I was little people would try to beat him on a calculator, and rarely won.

His talent was mainly that he could factor super quickly, and had the times tables memorized up to some absurd level. So that just cut a lot of thinking out of the task.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by madeuptempacct on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @12:39PM (#18230791)
Replying to you and vorpalhex at the same time. I can see memorizing multiplication tables for 2-digit numbers * 1 digit numbers, (0-99 * 0-9).

I am unsure about chunking for random large numbers though. Mnemonic champions chunk very large numbers (I don't have sources on hand), but normal people generally don't.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by sfink on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @03:33PM (#18242879)
Not at all. I just did that one in my head while driving, though I'm not fast.

The original multiplicands are honestly the hardest to remember. Don't materialize all of the intermediate results, and you can stay within working memory. You'll need to chunk a little, but mostly only 2 digit numbers.

Personally, I use fingers to keep track of the 10s place, and work from left to right. Less overwriting that way, and you start with an underapproximation that you refine gradually, which means you can stop early when estimating.