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Re:How Lisp Became God's Own Programming Language by thaumasiotes on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @04:39AM (#18227714)
> Lisp had 60 years to prove its human scaling capabilities. So far it hasn't convinced.

It can take more than you might expect to "convince".

> In 1601, an English sea captain did a controlled experiment to test whether lemon juice could prevent scurvy. He had four ships, three control and one experimental. The experimental group got three teaspoons of lemon juice a day while the control group received none. No one in the experimental group developed scurvy while 110 out of 278 in the control group died of scurvy. Nevertheless, citrus juice was not fully adopted to prevent scurvy until 1865.

( https://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/03/25/innovation-ii/ )

Re:How Lisp Became God's Own Programming Language by dahauns on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @06:08AM (#18228082)
Sooo...what would be the "programmer scurvy" Lisp (and especially Lisp) could help to prevent?
Re:How Lisp Became God's Own Programming Language by trmsw on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @05:37AM (#18227977)
And even in 1911, Scott's expedition suffered from scurvy, mainly because they misunderstood its cause! http://idlewords.com/2010/03/scott_and_scurvy.htm
Re:How Lisp Became God's Own Programming Language by billfruit on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:56AM (#18229378)
I have heard that the British knew what caused scurvey, and how to treat it with citrus, but they kept it a closely guarded secret to keep an advantage vis-a-vis other countries navies.
Re:How Lisp Became God's Own Programming Language by thaumasiotes on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @08:40PM (#18234565)
That is more or less correct, but it's a very weird situation. Scurvy had been known -- along with effective cures -- for thousands of years. The method of curing scurvy hasn't been secret since -- at the latest -- the Ebers papyrus of ~1500 BC, which correctly prescribed feeding the patient an onion. And in fact cures were widely known throughout the world since that time, including in Europe. Note again that James Lancaster had heard that lemons were effective against scurvy, 200 years before the Navy got around to requiring them.

From https://tudorblog.com/2012/06/16/voyage-of-the-scurvy/ :

> from about 1500 to 1800 two million sailors are estimated to have died from scurvy on expeditions to Asia, Africa and the New World.

> Why no cure? In Tudor England an effective treatment, scurvy grass (a corruption of cress), was commonly recommended; at the same time the Portuguese knew a cure, and so did the Spanish and the Dutch. For unknown reasons such wisdom was applied inconsistently (even by Britain’s Royal Navy after the Napoleonic Wars) until the identification of vitamin C in the 20th century.

It looks more like a case of the people making the decisions being unfortunately disconnected from the people who knew what scurvy was and how to deal with it. (And wilfully ignoring those who tried to point it out to them.)

Re:How Lisp Became God's Own Programming Language by oblio on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @05:36AM (#18227975)
I know about that the whole lime - lemon thing. Two things:

1. That was before the scientific age. They didn't know about vitamin C at the time, they couldn't even see it, even if they'd somehow believe in it.

2. There is no scientific proof, 0, none, that Lisp is superior. And it's almost impossible to prove it, since it requires controlled studies at a large scale - good luck with taking away hundreds of productive programmers for that study :) All we have is hearsay and personal opinions.

Re:How Lisp Became God's Own Programming Language by thaumasiotes on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @10:29AM (#18229637)
> I know about that the whole lime - lemon thing.

Be careful; my quote has nothing to do with the confusion between lemons and limes that occurred hundreds of years later. The Navy instituted a lime juice ration in 1799. They switched out lemons ("limes") for what we would call limes in 1865, setting themselves up for the reintroduction of scurvy. But James Lancaster performed his experiment (and reported his result of 100% scurvy prevention to Naval authorities) in 1601.

Re:How Lisp Became God's Own Programming Language by pjmlp on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @06:50AM (#18228221)
And all managed languages that still provide halfway solutions for what was the Interlisp-D/Lisp Machines developer experience.
Re:How Lisp Became God's Own Programming Language by oblio on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @07:37AM (#18228459)
I love how I'm being downvoted for saying that there's no scientific proof that Lisp is superior. Come on, show it, I want to see it. I want to see thorough, statistically representative studies that show Lisp's superiority :)
Re:How Lisp Became God's Own Programming Language by pjmlp on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @10:11AM (#18229507)
"How the strengths of Lisp-family languages facilitate building complex and flexible bioinformatics applications."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28040748

-- US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health

"Clasp: Common Lisp using LLVM and C++ for Designing Molecules"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rSMt1pAlbE

-- GoogleTechTalks

Re:How Lisp Became God's Own Programming Language by oblio on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @04:09AM (#18237106)
That's nowhere near something like medical clinical trials, though.

Think of studies where you:

a) have statistically representative sample size (100+ developers)

b) actual numbers and compare them (the average development time needed for the Java/C++/etc. applications was Y and the average development time needed for Lisp applications was Y - Z, where Z > 0, etc.; the average execution time for Java/C++/etc. applications, etc., you get the idea)

Computer Science studies are still in their infancy.

All this Lisp hype is just hype and gut feelings.

Re:How Lisp Became God's Own Programming Language by DonaldFisk on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @11:39AM (#18230225)
There's Lisp as an Alternative to Java: http://www.flownet.com/gat/papers/lisp-java.pdf