News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by gwbas1c on Thursday October 11, 2018 @11:35PM (#18199000)
The problem is the payment model is broken. I'm not going to subscribe to a site that I only want to read a single article.

We need a way to pay a few cents to read an article, ad and tracker free.

Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by davidgh on Thursday October 11, 2018 @11:47PM (#18199040)
Agree. I hope someone comes up with a “Netflix for online content”. I’m not going to subscribe to a dozen news sites individually and I also don’t want to make a purchase decision, even if tiny, every time I visit a site. For me a bundle of the top 10-15 high-quality news sites, perhaps letting me choose from different packages at different price points, and allocate the revenue to sites based on which content I read. Also let me share my account with a few members of my household on a “family plan”. They would make a lot more off me than they do from ads, and I’d be a lot happier.
Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by mertd on Friday October 12, 2018 @12:21AM (#18199186)
Careful what you wish for. With net neutrality gone, you might end up having to get cable tv style "sports" bundles.
Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by akho on Friday October 12, 2018 @02:05AM (#18199590)
Yes, that’s my thinking as well (also — I already pay my ISP for access to the web, why can’t they all just work together and find a way to share?)

There is a tricky point though. “allocate the revenue to sites based on which content I read” implies mandatory, centralized tracking. I’m not at all sure I want that.

Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by ddalex on Saturday October 13, 2018 @10:04AM (#18207982)
Mandatory? Yes. Centralized? No, think block chain. Anonymous? Yes.
Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by akho on Monday October 15, 2018 @01:53PM (#18221944)
I have yet to see anything improved by blockchain.
Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by lysium on Friday October 12, 2018 @12:32AM (#18199227)
The Germans kind of have that (formerly called GEZ) and people complain about that, too! It pays for the wrong content!

And the private news sites hate it, too! It’s an unfair advantage!

I don’t think it will make a difference if a private company collects the cash, but who knows?

Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by olex on Friday October 12, 2018 @01:56AM (#18199556)
People who complain about the GEZ/Rundfunkgebühr complain about the fact that it is compulsory, even though the content and media being offered is irrelevant for many people (who don't watch TV or listen to the radio). Also there's significant issues with the way the pricing model is designed, putting very unequal load on singles living alone vs. families or shared apartments.
Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by Moru on Friday October 12, 2018 @02:55AM (#18199780)
Sweden have something similar for allowing private copying of media. For all empty media we buy (cd, usb, harddrives, cassette tapes, vhs and so on) we pay a small tax that is collected by STIM. STIM distributes it to media creators according to their own payment model.

The problem here is that STIM is a private company handing taxes and payout. It is commonly argued that they are paying the wrong artists and has no real track on what is popular. The industry can easily game the system by making their own music popular (formerly pushing it out to all radio stations, not sure what they do now).

Micro transactions might just end up with a botfarm in china clicking articles to generate income for the newspapers. Or even more clickbaity headlines to click. A lot of problems to solve and no solution in sight yet?

Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by tannhaeuser on Friday October 12, 2018 @02:47AM (#18199745)
I'm not sure compulsary payment a la GEZ and culture flat rates is the way forward, to say the least. With the recent cut-backs, public TV broadcasters have become outlets for low-quality pseudo-scandinavian crime series and similar palliative care. Also, they've lost any public opinion leadership they had with their media blackout towards the new populist parties. The only asset left are their talk-radio pearls.
Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by isolli on Friday October 12, 2018 @09:17AM (#18201181)
Try Blendle: https://launch.blendle.com/

Articles cost between $0.10 and $1.15 (most between $0.20 and $0.50). You can request a refund if you don't like an article, which makes the transaction almost frictionless.

The one thing I miss is the ability to share articles without requiring the recipient to sign up for Blendle. Especially since the article can usually be read for free by going directly to the publisher's website. Five or so articles per month to share for free would sound about right.

Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by conscion on Friday October 12, 2018 @06:02PM (#18205057)
What I couldn't tell from their site, and what really is the "killer feature": Do I need to go through their site to access articles, or can I follow a native link and have Blendle automatically authenticate that I can read the article?
Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by isolli on Monday October 15, 2018 @07:54AM (#18218958)
No, you have to read the article in their app or website. The other way would be nice!
Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by briandear on Friday October 12, 2018 @10:40AM (#18201727)
Apple News.
Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by agotterer on Friday October 12, 2018 @12:01AM (#18199107)
Upvoted. But why is this being down voted? It’s a perfectly reasonable product desire, a welcome opinion, and is overall a productive comment.
Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by hakfoo on Friday October 12, 2018 @01:02AM (#18199342)
The problem is that per-article adds a lot of friction. If I buy a newspaper, I don't have to buy it by article or section. Nobody wants to think about "this is 3 cents to read the article linked on HN" and they also don't want a surprise $80 bill at the end of a month.

However, the newspaper style "every article from today" or even "monthly access" still focuses around the thought of "you've picked one, or a very narrow set of news sources and do most/all of your reading there." We're all news grazers now.

We need federation. Let me pay one flat $20 per month bill, and I can read freely from a really broad range of sites-- say "every newspaper from a large wire network" or "95% of the 1000 most popular magazines". It needs to be organized to rein in the publishers, to discourage the "we're the big draw, let's take our content and start a new service" syndrome that has ravaged video streaming.

Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by isolli on Friday October 12, 2018 @09:22AM (#18201218)
That's what I like about Blendle [0]: you can request a refund for articles you don't like, so it makes the transaction almost frictionless. No need to think long and hard about the decision, just request a refund if the article is not up to your expectations.

[0] https://launch.blendle.com/

Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by speedplane on Friday October 12, 2018 @01:17AM (#18199387)
NYTimes is $16/mo Washington Post is $10-15/mo WSJ is $15/mo

Seems like the price range is $10-25/mo for many periodicals, so a bundled plan of $20/month might be a bit low.

But I can imagine a $50/mo plan for including two national newspapers, a local newspaper, and a news weekly (e.g., economist) being pretty popular.

Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by hakfoo on Friday October 12, 2018 @02:09AM (#18199603)
I tend to think that the low takeup suggests that we already overprice some of these news services. Some also seem to be oddly priced for marketing reasons (for example, to make the print paper look like a good deal to potential online-only customers).

But on a network-of-services level, you also have a "value plateau" effect on both the supply and demand side though.

Each news source you add to a network typically provides a little less value than the one before. By the time you've got 100 newspapers in the network, number 101 is probably only contributing a few articles a year that weren't handled first or better by other papers, so nobody's going to pay much more to get it in their subscriptions.

And for readers, the number of interesting articles and the amount of time we have to read doesn't grow nearly as fast as the sheer number of available articles, so each additional provider doesn't produce that much more consumption.

So to be seen as a good value, we need a pricing model that tracks those "plateaus".

Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by speedplane on Friday October 12, 2018 @02:29AM (#18199677)
There actually aren't too many national news gathering services in the U.S. You generally have NYT, WashPo, Reuters, AssocPress. Even LATimes, BostonGlobe, and ChicagoTribune, which are big, focus most of their real reporting locally.

So for most general national news, there really isn't as much content as many would think, and adding each one still brings significant value.

The 100s of newspapers you refer to derive most of their content from the big ones, and maybe add their own analysis and slant.

A subscription model that provides access to 2 or 3 of the big ones, plus 1 or 2 local ones, and 1 or 2 special interest ones seems to make a lot of sense.

Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by makomk on Friday October 12, 2018 @06:26AM (#18200443)
The New York Times subscription price that they show everywhere is also only for an initial introductory period of one year. I can't actually find the real, non-introductory price anywhere, and I know others have commented that it's really deeply buried. It's amazing how sleazy the billing practices of the big publications are.
Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by robocat on Friday October 12, 2018 @01:26AM (#18199428)
Should foreigners (or anyone really) be able to access the single article that interests them?

I really don't want to read a anything about American politics. I am not interested in the vast majority of "news" in newspapers.

I am willing to outbid advertisers to read an article - if there was a convenient way to do micro-payments.

Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by speedplane on Friday October 12, 2018 @01:45AM (#18199501)
Should newspapers cater to people who want to read a single article for pennies and walk away forever? I think not.

There is a much stronger interest to build a lasting relationship over time with their readership, so the reader becomes familiar with the paper's voice, credibility, and focus. This leads to more revenue: readers will pay more for content they respect). It also leads to better news: a stable revenue source allows papers to plan and better invest in their reporting.

Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by cratib on Friday October 12, 2018 @01:39AM (#18199474)
> We need a way to pay a few cents to read an article, ad and tracker free.

Blendle[1] is exactly that. They are in semi-private beta, but if you follow a link from their twitter[2] you can sign up right away.

Their model is put a few dollars in your account and pay $0.10-$1.00 per article. You can also get an instant refund after you've read, which is supposed to solve clickbait type articles.

They have a lot of major publishers including WaPo, NYT, WSJ, Economist, etc.

Not affiliated, just a satisfied user.

[1] https://blendle.com/ [2] https://twitter.com/blendle

Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by mynewtb on Friday October 12, 2018 @02:03AM (#18199575)
And they track all you read, thanks to being a private, centralized service.
Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by beefield on Friday October 12, 2018 @12:53AM (#18199306)
A monthly flat fee that gives access to practically all paywalled websites, video services and amazons digital bookshelf. The fee is divided to content creators based on time spent on content, not clicks. No ads, no other tracking. (You may need some time multiplier for different types of content.) I would imagine you could count me in with significantly larger monthly fee than what I currently spend on digital media. What I can't estimate is the ad revenue I generate to content providers.
Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by daveFNbuck on Friday October 12, 2018 @02:22AM (#18199654)
> no other tracking

What other tracking could there possibly be once they're tracking everything I view on every site that monetizes its content?

Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by beefield on Friday October 12, 2018 @04:10AM (#18200003)
Sorry, bad formulation. I meant that the tracking for this would not be used for any other purpose than distributing my payments.
Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by jimmaswell on Thursday October 11, 2018 @11:46PM (#18199036)
Ads and tracking are honestly just fine and a perfectly good compromise. Fears over them are greatly exaggerated.
Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by mdex on Friday October 12, 2018 @12:45AM (#18199275)
There's the overall creepiness of hordes of data containing your entire online history being used for the sole purpose of predicting what you'll buy and manipulating you into buying it.

But I think there's more to it than that:

It's customary in trade to not have hidden costs or unintended consequences of using your product, anything otherwise is dishonest. And insisting a product is "free" while having hidden schemes to extract value from customers is scam-y.

Then to say ad-hoc that its a "fair compromise"... but if it was a "good deal" why not be upfront about it, why try to hide it? "You should've read the EULA." Well, a bet a bunch of people being targeted/tracked by Google & Facebook are children, many too young to consent, some maybe even too young to even read...

Re:Tell HN: Now Washington Post is asking to turn off Firefo... by paulie_a on Friday October 12, 2018 @12:23AM (#18199196)
Except for the incredibly low quality ads that also make the article unreadable. The entire internet ad industry worth hundreds of billions of dollars and countless petabytes of analytics still suck at ads. The ad quality is complete garbage across the board.