News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by santialbo on Monday October 08, 2018 @04:38AM (#18165402)
> and [unlike Barcelona] everyone speaks English

Do you have any stats proving that? Just asked a portuguese friend living in Barcelona and said that is a quite bold statement.

Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by eggie on Monday October 08, 2018 @04:56AM (#18165527)
I agree. Even in the big cities the level of english speaking is pretty low, and definitely lower than in Barcelona. But this shouldn't be a problem. Take the month or two of effort it takes to get started in the local language where you live, make an effort over time, and you'll find it to be no barrier.
Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by sanedigital on Monday October 08, 2018 @04:51AM (#18165492)
I'd second this. Almost everyone in professional circles speaks English in Barcelona. I would say on average Portugal has much better English penetration than Spain, but Barcelona is definitely an exception.
Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by jonathanstrange on Monday October 08, 2018 @04:56AM (#18165522)
> I would say on average Portugal has much better English penetration than the rest of Spain

I'm sure it's just a slip of tongue but never ever say things like that in Portugal...

Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by katzenjam on Monday October 08, 2018 @05:15AM (#18165650)
I think the GP intended "the rest of Spain" to mean "Spain excluding Barcelona", rather than "Spain excluding Portugal". But I read it as "Spain excluding Portugal" the first time too.
Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by bogomipz on Monday October 08, 2018 @05:15AM (#18165655)
I think you need to read both sentences together. I believe the OP is just excluding Barcelona from the comparison of English speaking between the two countries.
Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by andai on Monday October 08, 2018 @06:50AM (#18166212)
English(Portugal) > English(Spain − Barcelona)
Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by severine on Monday October 08, 2018 @05:09AM (#18165604)
Yeah, Portugal isn't part of Spain.
Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by nailer on Monday October 08, 2018 @06:46AM (#18166186)
Weird historical fact: they shared a king for a little while a few hundred years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberian_Union
Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by sexydefinesher on Monday October 08, 2018 @02:32PM (#18170024)
"Why havent Spain conquered you yet?"
Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by nelsonic on Monday October 08, 2018 @05:14AM (#18165640)
Stats would be nice, I agree.

I have searched but haven't found anything concrete ... the best data available is: https://www.ef.edu.pt/epi/regions/europe/portugal

in lieu of stats, I'll give you the logic [facts] instead: English as a Second Language (lessons) begins in the 5th grade in Portugal. It's compulsory for all people and generally high quality.

see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Portugal

Students cannot graduate from High school without proficiency in English. So the system is setup to ensure that the next generation [the one you will be interacting with in most situations] is fluent in English.

I know from first-hand experience of going to a "government" school and being taught by a fantastic teacher who studied at Cambridge, UK. The English lessons are predominantly "mechanical" i.e. grammar/vocabulary and sentence structure. But the fact that all television is sub-titled, not dubbed, means that all popular CSI/Fox shows are in English so the general population learn English "in use" much more effectively than in Spain, Germany or France.

All "Top Tier" STEM Universities are taught in English in order to help attract foreign students and help graduates get jobs abroad. This is a "double-edged sward" that has resulted in considerable "brain drain" to other countries. But we are seeing many Portuguese educated people who have worked abroad returning to start their own companies now which is really promising!

In Spain, many people speak English, however - and this is not meant to cause a "flame war" - since all television/media is "translated" [dubbed] people don't practice listening to English nearly as much, so the level of spoken english in the general population [outside of tech] is lower. There's a reason for the "Manuel from Barcelona" Fawlty Towers sketch/stereotype: https://youtu.be/s6EaoPMANQM

I love Spain and Barça [especially] is lovely! I worked there [as a waiter!] for 3 summers as a teenager. Loved it! But again, from first-hand experience, the level of English was much lower than in Portugal. This worked out well for me, because it forced me to learn Spanish. ;-)

The "stats" comparing Spain and Portugal: https://www.ef.edu.pt/epi/compare/regions/pt/es/

Mucho amor a todos los amigos en Barçelona!

Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by sergioj97 on Monday October 08, 2018 @06:18AM (#18166042)
Isn't English compulsory almost everywhere throughout the EU? I live in Madrid and it definitely is here in Spain.

It's true, however, that the fact that every TV show is completely dubbed makes it harder for us to develop our speaking (our listening doesn't seem to be so affected for some reason).

When you finish college you're only supposed to have a B2 English level. I don't know about it, but I wouldn't be surprised to know it's a fairly low standard for a European country.

Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by eequah9L on Monday October 08, 2018 @09:25AM (#18167151)
> the fact that every TV show is completely dubbed makes it harder for us to develop our speaking

Same in Czechia. English has been mandatory for almost two decades now, and yet somehow nobody seems to be able to speak it. Grocery store clerks, waiters, even policemen, unless you are in a touristy area, and often not even there, you are basically out of luck.

On the other hand, I'm sure having everything dubbed is a boon to foreigners trying to master Czech. All three of them.

Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by rjsw on Monday October 08, 2018 @08:37AM (#18166847)
Some description of language proficiency standards here [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_R...