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Re:'Siri I'm getting pulled over': New shortcut can automati... by grecy on Thursday October 04, 2018 @06:29AM (#18138629)
> in the US it’s... probably slightly above zero

A good friend was an LAPD beat cop, then detective for 30 years.

Every single day he was on duty he took out his loaded firearm, pointed it directly in someones face and had his finger on the trigger, for fear they might pull a gun or do something else to harm him. Police friends of his were shot and killed.

He shot and killed two people on duty, and discharged his firearm many, many times.

He absolutely said "It's a war out there, and we want to come home alive"

Re:'Siri I'm getting pulled over': New shortcut can automati... by EliRivers on Thursday October 04, 2018 @07:24AM (#18138881)
Every single day he was on duty he took out his loaded firearm, pointed it directly in someones face and had his finger on the trigger, for fear they might pull a gun or do something else to harm him.

I understand (although do not have evidence to hand) a number of LAPD beat cops manage to go quite a long time between instances of having to draw a firearm and point it at someone's face. If this officer was doing it every day, was he simply the world's unluckiest police officer, or was he the kind of police officer who makes situations more violent rather than less? I understand that typical US police training (if there is such a think in a nation with such a large range of police forces) does contain rather less "how to make situations less violent" training than their counterparts in other countries.

Re:'Siri I'm getting pulled over': New shortcut can automati... by grecy on Thursday October 04, 2018 @10:03AM (#18139956)
> I understand (although do not have evidence to hand) a number of LAPD beat cops manage to go quite a long time between instances of having to draw a firearm and point it at someone's face

You're absolutely going to need a citation for that. I don't believe US cops have to even report instances of upholstering their sidearm - It's such a common occurrence. Discharging a firearm is a different story.

Of course, my friend was a cop in the late 70s, 80s and 90s, and did all kinds of things that would land him in very deep water today. i.e. to disperse an angry crowd you just rack a round in a shotgun. He said it works extremely well without even firing it.

Re:'Siri I'm getting pulled over': New shortcut can automati... by EliRivers on Thursday October 04, 2018 @11:42AM (#18140918)
Drawing firearms doesn't seem to be habitually recorded in the statistics, and even if it were, I suspect that thence pointing it at someone's face would still not be recorded.

Here are a number of LEOs discussing how frequently they draw their weapon, but again nothing about actually pointing it at someone: https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=432377 Other such discussion seem to indicate similarly; that even drawing is not common.

On such forums, detectives seem to indicate that they have even less need to draw firearms.

The 2016 LAPD review use-of-force review indicates that in 2016 there were 40 officer-involved-shooting. I understand the LAPD employs on the order of 9000 to 10000 police officers, so on the order of 95% or more of those police officers didn't shoot at anyone. However, it looks like they don't record drawing a firearm or pointing firearms at people's faces.

I suspect citations for your hypothesis - that LAPD beat cops draw and point their weapons every day - will be similarly hard to come by, but if you have some, please do present them.

Re:'Siri I'm getting pulled over': New shortcut can automati... by grecy on Thursday October 04, 2018 @03:06PM (#18142677)
Why would a cop drawn their weapon and then not point it at someone? That doesn't make any sense.

You're right I don't have hard citations, only first-hand evidence from someone with 30 years actually doing it.

Re:'Siri I'm getting pulled over': New shortcut can automati... by AcerbicZero on Thursday October 04, 2018 @04:06PM (#18143213)
A pre-drawn handgun reduces the "get stabbed before I can react" range dramatically. The general rule of thumb is you need a knife threat to start at least 21 feet away to draw, aim and fire(See - Tueller Drill). When already at the low-ready that range drops down to ~10-14 feet, if I recall.

So if you might need to defend yourself, but you want to avoid escalating the situation by aiming a gun at someone, it makes sense.

Re:'Siri I'm getting pulled over': New shortcut can automati... by EliRivers on Sunday October 07, 2018 @04:31PM (#18162465)
Because pointing a gun at someone is a very dangerous thing to do. It massively escalates the situation. At that point, if they or anyone else in the situation thinks they can shoot first, it becomes a real option and is also the only way to definitely protect yourself from the gun-pointer. Even if it's not a real option, people under that kind of sudden pressure don't think straight. A police-officer who habitually points a gun at people in situations that don't justify it is a danger to themself and everyone around them; the unlucky person staring down the barrel, other police-officers and unlucky bystanders in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Once a gun is pointed at a person, there are no more steps of escalation, no more ways to express how much you want them to do something; the only next step is to pull the trigger. The situation has suddenly become extremely dangerous and very volatile.

Re:'Siri I'm getting pulled over': New shortcut can automati... by jki275 on Thursday October 04, 2018 @08:15AM (#18139152)
That comment is certainly hyperbole, but there are neighborhoods in any city that are far more violent by nature than others, and it stands to reason that one may have to respond that way more often in those areas.

Police in the US are trained heavily in de-escalation, but sometimes overwhelming show of force lets everybody go home alive (yes, the offender as well), rather than allowing a situation to escalate to a point where deadly force has to be used.

Re:'Siri I'm getting pulled over': New shortcut can automati... by nicoburns on Thursday October 04, 2018 @09:06AM (#18139503)
> sometimes overwhelming show of force lets everybody go home alive (yes, the offender as well), rather than allowing a situation to escalate to a point where deadly force has to be used.

Maybe sometimes, but I suspect in the vast majority of cases, a show of force is what causes the situation to escalate to the point where deadly force has to be used.

Who are you more likely to shoot? A policeman pointing a loaded gun at you, or one with gun holstered talking calmly (but maybe firmly) to you. Pulling a gun out automatically leads to a "shoot first or risk getting shot" situation.

Re:'Siri I'm getting pulled over': New shortcut can automati... by jki275 on Thursday October 04, 2018 @09:48AM (#18139823)
Contrary to popular belief, westerns are not documentaries, and it's not common for people who are already under the gun to try to quick-draw and outshoot someone.
Re:'Siri I'm getting pulled over': New shortcut can automati... by EliRivers on Thursday October 04, 2018 @08:24AM (#18139226)
I understand that deescalation training is not common [0].

[0] https://www.apmreports.org/story/2017/05/05/police-de-escala...

Re:'Siri I'm getting pulled over': New shortcut can automati... by wan23 on Thursday October 04, 2018 @06:16PM (#18144157)
When talking about gun safety you often hear "never point a gun at anything you do not want to shoot". Maybe pointing a loaded gun in people's faces is a good way to keep yourself safe, but it's also kind of dangerous for the people whose faces are in the crosshairs.
Re:'Siri I'm getting pulled over': New shortcut can automati... by baybal2 on Thursday October 04, 2018 @06:59AM (#18138765)
Such men lack moral fibre
Re:'Siri I'm getting pulled over': New shortcut can automati... by grecy on Thursday October 04, 2018 @10:01AM (#18139936)
Actually he is one of the best humans I have ever met. Extremely kind and generous. He was just looking out for himself.