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Re:Ask HN: How do you decide when you've done enough work fo... by cimmanom on Saturday September 29, 2018 @10:39PM (#18104161)
How strict is your employer about butt-in-seat schedule?

If you have full flexibility, I’d suggest aiming to hit 40 hours on a weekly basis rather than 8 on a daily basis. That gives you the flexibility to work, say, 10 hours one day because you’re really on a roll, and to stop at 6 hours the next afternoon when you’re tired and distracted without feeling guilty.

Don’t go over 40 hours on a regular basis. That’s a recipe for burnout. A week of crunch time every 3 months is one thing. But regular 50-hour weeks aren’t sustainable for most people.

I’d also suggest setting goals in the morning for what you want to accomplish in a day. Put down your work when you reach the goal, unless you’ve got several more hours in the day. In that case, set another goal for the remaining hours. If it becomes clear that you won’t reach your goal within a reasonable number of hours for the day, put your work down whenever you hit a stopping point close to the time you’d planned to wrap up for the day.

More experience should help you make increasingly accurate estimates of what you can accomplish in a day, so you’ll hone this process as time passes. Plus it’s great practice at estimating, which is a difficult and valuable skill.

It’s unusual to hire junior engineers fully remote in part for this reason: more experience in a “typical” work environment give you more context for these sorts of judgement calls.

Re:Ask HN: How do you decide when you've done enough work fo... by Terr_ on Sunday September 30, 2018 @02:01AM (#18104717)
From my own experience, burnout is primarily emotional. Time spent is a side-effect.

It's not how many hours you work, it's how much of your experience involves despair, frustration, and resentment. That might either be towards your employer ("stupid schedules, I'm not valued"), towards yourself ("this should be easy but I'm failing"), or towards the universe for simply not being the way it "should" be.

Re:Ask HN: How do you decide when you've done enough work fo... by dstick on Sunday September 30, 2018 @03:05AM (#18104934)
Amen. Working on my own products has never caused any kind of fatigue. It’s energizing :)
Re:Ask HN: How do you decide when you've done enough work fo... by codewithcheese on Sunday September 30, 2018 @07:32AM (#18105718)
I find there is inevitably still tough days working for yourself on a project that takes more than a month. Overworking can lead to losing sight of your goals which can lead to burn out.
Re:Ask HN: How do you decide when you've done enough work fo... by dstick on Sunday September 30, 2018 @03:53PM (#18108021)
Fair enough! Breaks and structure remain important.

I wake up every morning at 5:00, do some excersises, write down my goals, do pushups until I can’t any more and then process all emails from the past 24 hours. Once that’s done I set a todo list for that day and push things forward that aren’t a priority.

So far, this ensures I’m able to stay on top, don’t lose track, can work 10 to 12 hours a day easily and not feel tired or unproductive.

There’s still plenty of time left for “life” as well. Just have to be in bed at 22:30 at the very latest.

Setting goals, cooking every day and adhering to that routine works wonders to be honest, I highly recommend it :)

Re:Ask HN: How do you decide when you've done enough work fo... by codewithcheese on Monday October 01, 2018 @02:06PM (#18115181)
Ok I can see why you don't get burnt out much. I don't exercise and go to sleep at 4am lol
Re:Ask HN: How do you decide when you've done enough work fo... by mpolsz on Sunday September 30, 2018 @05:56AM (#18105456)
I feel the same. From my own experience, I've done both 9h-10h of productive work for few weeks in challenging projects and 8h ass-in-seat in crappy and bad managed ones.
Re:Ask HN: How do you decide when you've done enough work fo... by hartator on Sunday September 30, 2018 @10:44AM (#18106358)
It’s both. You can be fine doing somehing you hate for a couple of hours. But 12h and more.
Re:Ask HN: How do you decide when you've done enough work fo... by evansj on Monday October 01, 2018 @06:08AM (#18111306)
Beautifully put.
Re:Ask HN: How do you decide when you've done enough work fo... by pandler on Sunday September 30, 2018 @03:14AM (#18104959)
> If you have full flexibility, I’d suggest aiming to hit 40 hours on a weekly basis rather than 8 on a daily basis.

I think this is an exceptional answer. I’ve been working as a contractor recently where I am hard capped at 40 hours a week and it’s been wonderful. Work 12 hours one day when I’m in the zone and don’t even think about stopping? Sweet, that’s 4 hours off my Friday afternoon. Can’t concentrate today? That’s fine, I’ll put in some extra time tomorrow.

That’s a major change from my previous position where I felt like I never had a “not at work” mode and there was always more I could do.

I think capping yourself on a weekly basis is valuable because it gives you flexibility on a day-to-day basis while retaining a regular cadence.

Re:Ask HN: How do you decide when you've done enough work fo... by dnautics on Sunday September 30, 2018 @01:13AM (#18104578)
I'm not convinced burnout comes from merely working hard, it comes from when you work hard and expectation of reward is missed.
Re:Ask HN: How do you decide when you've done enough work fo... by papacuppa on Sunday September 30, 2018 @04:11AM (#18105147)
Agreed. It seems to me that burnout from work would only be qualified if burnout from play was a thing - because work to the fortunate among us, is play. Managing expectation is key, or more palpably perhaps - anticipation. The scientist, Robert Sapolsky, has done some interesting work on how dopamine affects behaviour. He shows that we get far more pleasure/dopamine from anticipation [future] rather than reward [present], where dopamine dries up. Our endurance is largely about our perception of the future. Good video here if anyone is interested: https://www.theguardian.com/science/punctuated-equilibrium/2...
Re:Ask HN: How do you decide when you've done enough work fo... by Insanity on Sunday September 30, 2018 @08:40AM (#18105918)
In my case, it was due to crunch time shortly before release, and then after the project was released falling into a void of not knowing how to fill my time.

Which caused stress and eventually a burnout that I am only just slowly getting out of, after about 5 months.

I suppose it is different for each person though.

Re:Ask HN: How do you decide when you've done enough work fo... by goatherders on Sunday September 30, 2018 @10:51AM (#18106388)
Spot on. When I was younger I could do 15 hour days without looking at the clock when orders were coming in and shipments were going out. Reward is a big motivator for time invested.
Re:Ask HN: How do you decide when you've done enough work fo... by jypepin on Sunday September 30, 2018 @03:45AM (#18105068)
I don't agree with that, because the number of hours you work are pretty irrelevant when not in a butts-in-seats setup. Also, burnout is not really directly related to the number of hours you work.

Work should be focused on productivity, not hours spent. Employers, clients and managers have expectations of a quantity of work being accomplished for a specific budget, and it doesn't matter to them if its done in 2hrs or 200hrs.

Re:Ask HN: How do you decide when you've done enough work fo... by chrisweekly on Sunday September 30, 2018 @09:33AM (#18106109)
>"Employers, clients and managers have expectations of a quantity of work being accomplished for a specific budget, and it doesn't matter to them if its done in 2hrs or 200hrs."

You're assuming every project is fixed-scope, fixed-cost and variable-time. In my experience that matches a small minority of projects.

Re:Ask HN: How do you decide when you've done enough work fo... by jypepin on Monday October 01, 2018 @08:41AM (#18112020)
Although " fixed-scope, fixed-cost and variable-time" makes it easier, this works also in other situation, including variable-everything, part of a product team.

You are given tasks or projects for a specific budget (budget, for your manager is 1 engineer). They have expectations on what 1 engineer can deliver on average.

This is what people mean when they say "we care about output, not butts in seats".

Re:Ask HN: How do you decide when you've done enough work fo... by sdegutis on Saturday September 29, 2018 @11:53PM (#18104375)
Experience alone doesn't help you get better at estimating. You also need to have reasonable stopping points. That's why I try to aim for rigid 8 hour days, rather than being flexible. It allows me to see how much work I accomplished in a given day, and what kinds of tasks generally take less time or more time. Days are very intuitive chunks of time to reason about, and I find this helps my estimations be a lot more accurate.
Re:Ask HN: How do you decide when you've done enough work fo... by hartator on Sunday September 30, 2018 @10:43AM (#18106351)
Interesting, I would advise the reverse, get into a daily routine, try to not variate too much, and avoid working the weekends.