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Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by jdpedrie on Thursday September 20, 2018 @10:29AM (#18032670)
In the wake of Obama's 2008 and 2012 elections, there was a ton of angst in Republican circles as they woke up to the seemingly insurmountable gap between the innovation of the Obama campaign and the pre-internet tactics of the GOP. Added to the early rumblings against the perceived unfriendliness of the large social networks, this resulted in a huge scattershot investment in a lot of poorly conceived and equally poorly executed projects run by PACs and by the party organization. Romney's election-day tech disasters come to mind as an obvious example. Some sort of oral history from the people involved at the time would be really fascinating.

Anyways, the shoe seems to be on the other foot today, as the Democrats appear to have convinced themselves that they're behind the eight ball on tech matters (a position I find silly, considering the massive advantage they have in potential recruits and sympathetic developers).

Despite all the changes wrought by technology, politics is still played more or less as it has always been. Charismatic politicians (Obama, Trump) carry their party, hiding its weaknesses and exposing the weaknesses of their opponents. "Social networking" is an extremely poor avenue for political organizing (as distinguished perhaps from political rabble-rousing). Politics is still a game of people and personality, and investments in internet technology can only perhaps have an impact at the margins.

Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by maxxxxx on Thursday September 20, 2018 @10:39AM (#18032736)
Instead of tech maybe they should have a real message that appeals not only to upper middle class or tech millionaires. The 2016 campaign showed to me how out of touch the Democrats are with most of the country. Silicon Valley has even less of an idea what's going on outside their bubble. As long as they have such disdain for the working class they will keep losing. At least Obama had a message. That's something I don't see today.
Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by akhilcacharya on Thursday September 20, 2018 @11:22AM (#18033098)
A “disdain for the working class”? What, pray tell, might that be?

If the Democrats can gain 20+ seats in congress without a “message” I’ll count that as a success.

Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by wu-ikkyu on Thursday September 20, 2018 @11:27AM (#18033147)
>disdain for the working class”? What, pray tell, might that be?

Implicit support for corporate globalization which vastly diminishes the bargaining power of the working class.

Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by brookhaven_dude on Thursday September 20, 2018 @12:14PM (#18033546)
Disdain might come in a more subtle form, for example disdain for candidates like Bernie.
Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by maxxxxx on Thursday September 20, 2018 @11:33AM (#18033186)
A “disdain for the working class”? What, pray tell, might that be?

Calling people racist and bigots?

Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by akhilcacharya on Thursday September 20, 2018 @11:45AM (#18033299)
There are lots of working class people that aren’t racists and bigots (and in terms of bigotry against people of color, many working class people are people of color) and everyone accepts that there are many elites that are racist and bigoted. I’m not sure where the “working class” comes into the equation here.
Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by maxxxxx on Thursday September 20, 2018 @11:54AM (#18033393)
I know plenty of liberal white collar people who immediately call someone who thinks about gun rights, has doubts about immigration or same sex marriage a racist and bigot. Independently of the merit of these opinions writing these people off is not a good idea.
Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by akhilcacharya on Thursday September 20, 2018 @12:12PM (#18033526)
Remember when Obama said that thing about clinging to guns and religion? He ended up winning Pennsylvania by 10 points! Don’t pretend this is a new phenomenon or that anybody actually cares that much about it.
Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by LyndsySimon on Thursday September 20, 2018 @07:18PM (#18036141)
> or that anybody actually cares that much about it.

I assure you, those of us for whom gun rights are a central issue - an issue of basic civil rights - care.

As it is, I have no particular love for the Republican Party, but I simply cannot see myself voting for a Democrat for state or national office given their history of voting as a bloc against gun rights.

Objectively, I have no idea if gun control is a net positive for the Democrats at a national level - but I'm confident that by branding themselves as the party of gun control they are driving away a large number of people who would otherwise be reachable.

Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by akhilcacharya on Friday September 21, 2018 @11:02PM (#18044217)
I don't even disagree with you - but given that Obama won ~53% and 51% of the vote (a higher vote share than anybody since HW Bush in '88) it's not as important as some would think.
Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by gaius on Thursday September 20, 2018 @11:48AM (#18033331)
Well, consider common terms like “flyover state” and “rust belt”. What do you suppose a person who talks like that really thinks about the people who live there?
Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by akhilcacharya on Thursday September 20, 2018 @03:43PM (#18034963)
Those phrases have been used for decades. In the intervening years a Democrat has won the popular vote 6 times and the electoral vote 4 times.
Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by gaius on Friday September 21, 2018 @03:56AM (#18037968)
Coastal disdain for the middle has long been a thing yes. I suppose the modern difference is that when manufacturing was still onshore, no one cared what the coastal elites thought.
Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by akhilcacharya on Friday September 21, 2018 @11:46AM (#18040544)
Manufacturing has been going offshore since the ‘80s. Springsteen wrote albums about it! This isn’t a new phenomenon at all.
Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by gaius on Thursday September 20, 2018 @10:51AM (#18032821)
At least Obama had a message. That's something I don't see today.

My man Bernie had a simple message: free healthcare and college education. And love him or loathe him so did Trump: build the wall. Clear, to the point, and instantly everyone knew what they were promising.

Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by dragonwriter on Thursday September 20, 2018 @01:06PM (#18033938)
> Anyways, the shoe seems to be on the other foot today, as the Democrats appear to have convinced themselves that they're behind the eight ball on tech matters (a position I find silly, considering the massive advantage they have in potential recruits and sympathetic developers).

Democrats are not convinced Republicans have an advantage in technical skill or available domestic technical workforce, they are convinced that there is an assymetry between parties in the willingness to partner with hostile foreign powers and engage in criminal methods of cyberwarfare in pursuit of electoral victory, which mitigates the advantage Democrats believe they retain in lawful use of technology.

Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by obmelvin on Thursday September 20, 2018 @10:44AM (#18032769)
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/19/climate/koch-brothers-pub...

Reading this made it seem to me that this tech can be extremely effective. By pinpointing exactly who was worth their time talking to (i.e. if husband of target answers the door you ask for target otherwise politely leave) the Koch brother's were able to overturn an initially very popular public transit bill.

Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by jdpedrie on Thursday September 20, 2018 @11:14AM (#18033041)
I think tech can be effective when its used to make on the ground activism better. It's a truism in political science that face to face politicking and door knocking wins elections. If you can improve the effectiveness of that sort of activism through technology, I don't see why it wouldn't be useful. Of course, that introduces risks as well; it would be simple to end up only talking to people who were probably going to swing towards you anyways, and ending up in yet another echo chamber.

I didn't mean in my original comment that technology is entirely useless. More that it's a distant second to the things that have always worked in politics, and that "our tech is worse than theirs" is the refuge of a losing party looking to cast blame for their losses.

Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by obmelvin on Thursday September 20, 2018 @11:23AM (#18033107)
Ah, I misunderstood you. I definitely agree that message and charisma are far more important than tech. Even in the case I cited, the tech just identified who to speak to, but that does no good if you don't have a friendly volunteer to convey a resonating message.
Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by flossball on Thursday September 20, 2018 @03:48PM (#18035002)
In the suburban liberal utopia I live, we get lots of door knockers/canvassing.

Republicans are usually a middle aged male female team. They are very polite and will discuss the election in general before admitting who they represent. They will also try to sway with fiscal voting histories and moderate policy choices.

Democrats will usually be a group of twenty year olds or middle aged teachers. They are pleasant, but immediately hand you the flyer and start to discuss 'stopping' this or that. They usually don't talk about their candidate, but discuss negatively the competition and Republican national level platform concepts and of course recently Trump. The majority of flyers they send out are negative campaigns.

There is one campaign this year and the only ads running on TV right now is a negative ad against the Republican because he voted against funding bills that claimed to support some senior citizen project and schools. I honestly think this is a smooth play on the Republican party to keep quiet.

[dead]
Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by ryanmarsh on Thursday September 20, 2018 @10:47AM (#18032791)
Yes, odd how that works. Being outspokenly left seems to have few consequences, being outspokenly right appears to have worse consequences. At least half of developers appear to be some form of right wing but you’d never know it. Indeed, most of us have learned to shut up.
Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by LyndsySimon on Thursday September 20, 2018 @07:23PM (#18036158)
One thing about this that strikes me is that "right wing" and "left wing" don't adequately describe either people's positions or the extent of the impact of the chilling effect you described.

I would not consider myself "right wing" - I'm an anarcho-capitalist, and have no problem with the vast majority of the social issues embraced by the left. I take issue with the way they intend to address them sometimes but that applies to all parties and to government in general.

Still, I often bite my tongue when guns come up as a topic of conversation in a professional settings, because when I speak on that topic it's automatically assumed that I'm a Republican. Democrats (and assorted other leftists) seem to regularly project their preconceived notions of what a Republican is onto me, and assume that they are correct.

Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by InitialLastName on Thursday September 20, 2018 @11:12AM (#18033026)
> At least half of developers appear to be some form of right wing

It's almost like politics optimizes to get 50% of the people on each "team" \s.

Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by ryanmarsh on Thursday September 20, 2018 @02:21PM (#18034473)
What is it about politics that makes it go that way? Is there something fundamental about humans that makes it happen?
Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by dragonwriter on Thursday September 20, 2018 @02:54PM (#18034659)
> What is it about politics that makes it go that way

It's not “politics”, it's the US electoral system, and particular:

(1) single-winner majority or plurality legislative (and state executive) elections and

(2) Indirect federal executive elections where the voters are elected in winner-take-all plurality elections at either state or a mix of state and district levels.

Together, this strongly encouraged a system of two major national factions, each of which strives to acheive a winning coalition with as little compromise on policy priorities as possible, which in effect means minimal size to acheive victory.

Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by sievebrain on Friday September 21, 2018 @01:18AM (#18037310)
Yes. Read a conflict of visions by Thomas Sowell. It explains why people separate into these two camps across time, place and culture.
Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by claydavisss on Thursday September 20, 2018 @10:50AM (#18032811)
Exactly...can you imagine anyone at Google's fabled cry-session in 2016 coming to the mic and asking why it is so awful that they voted for Trump? They would have had an immediate impromptu review followed by termination.

Instead we get everyone telling the mob what they want to hear and no one can figure out why the votes counted don't reflect the "consensus".

Re:Inside a Failed Silicon Valley Attempt to Reinvent Politics by mbrumlow on Thursday September 20, 2018 @11:18AM (#18033069)
Not sure why so many down votes for your comment.

I watched the video and if I remember right somebody did come up and gave a reminder that they should be considerate that there were Trump voters. They were promptly booed.