Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

Re:Life in the Spanish city that banned cars by deelowe on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @10:08AM (#18015424)

As one of these so called "white flight" people, I can't describe how much such statements frustrate me. I didn't move from the city because I'm a racist or don't want to be around people of color. I don't want to be around people period. Living in the city stresses me out. The constant noise, the issues with drunk people randomly knocking on my door at 2am, the couple of times I woke up to people fighting in the parking lot, the sirens, the random music festival 3 blocks over that I didn't know about, the fact I had 2 motorcycles stolen in 5 years, my kids not having a convenient place to play outside and more led to me leaving the city.

I didn't move because I'm white, I moved because I wanted peace and quiet. Most of the people I know who live around me moved away from the city for the same reason. Amazingly, non white people feel this way too...

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Life in the Spanish city that banned cars by InitialLastName on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @11:12AM (#18015958)

> Amazingly, non white people feel this way too...

Part of the reason the trend is called "white flight" is that for a long time and in many places non-white people were prevented by bank, municipal, real estate office and HOA policy from purchasing houses or even getting mortgages in the suburbs.

Calling it white flight isn't always an accusation of racism against the people who were fleeing, more against the people who openly prevented people of color from leaving as well.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Life in the Spanish city that banned cars by amyjess on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @11:37AM (#18016160)

That's not what "white flight" refers to. While the 1940s-1950s move to the suburbs consisted almost entirely of white people due to systematic racial discrimination preventing POC from moving, that is not "white flight".

The phrase "white flight" refers to a 1970s phenomenon where white people repeatedly moved from one suburb to another (often in circular patterns) in order to avoid POC after desegregation and civil rights legislation made suburbs accessible to POC for the first time. This was exacerbated by real estate agents engaging in a race-baiting, unscrupulous practice called "block busting".

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Life in the Spanish city that banned cars by bogomipz on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @01:54PM (#18017561)

No, the OP is actually correct. The origin of the term "white flight" was a phenomenon that that followed the "great migration" of people from the rural south during the war and immediate post war years in the US.[1][2]

>"The phrase "white flight" refers to a 1970s phenomenon ..."

No, the 1970s may have seen a recirculation of the original phrase but it is commonly understood that "white flight" refers to phenomenon around the war years.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight

[2] https://priceonomics.com/the-great-migration-the-african-ame...

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Life in the Spanish city that banned cars by NPMaxwell on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @11:24AM (#18016067)

Yes. If folks are interested, here's more about that: http://books.wwnorton.com/books/The-Color-of-Law/

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Life in the Spanish city that banned cars by CompelTechnic on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @10:41AM (#18015727)

There are good reasons to believe that highly urban environments are bad for your mental health (in ways that I think are worse than how bad they are for your physical health). Sometimes I feel like strong advocates of increasingly-dense construction feel that the denser your lifestyle, the more prosocial your behavior. Maybe these advocates are among the most extraverted people, and they have little experience with the stress it causes others.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3230535/

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Life in the Spanish city that banned cars by Sharlin on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @03:25PM (#18018333)

And to what extent the hostility of urban environments is due to cars and car-centric planning hostile to human-scale activity? The whole point of new urbanism is creating livable, hospitable urban environments, and usually people-friendliness means car-unfriendliness.

Your generic suburbs have their own problems – massively artificial, claustrophobic rows and rows of almost identical houses, with zero character and nowhere to go without a car.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Life in the Spanish city that banned cars by asveikau on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @12:07PM (#18016417)

I think you may be neglecting the extent to which you are describing the self-reenforcing downsides of "post white flight" urbanism. Given the age demographics of HN, it's more likely than not that the city life you (or any of us) experienced was well after white flight ran its course, with consequent effects on crime and noise in cities. If you imagine a world in which the people who wanted quiet never left, the picture of urbanism looks a bit different. If you read about American life in pre-war cities, or the late 19th century, urban areas were a place where all types of people lived, including families, the elderly, and people who seek calm and quiet.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Life in the Spanish city that banned cars by Sharlin on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @10:21AM (#18015543)

Call it "middle-class flight" if you want. The end result is the same.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Life in the Spanish city that banned cars by strictnein on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @10:27AM (#18015605)

It's quite a different thing to be accused of racism than it is to not be able to afford to live in the nicer areas of a metropolitan area.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Life in the Spanish city that banned cars by wott on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @11:29AM (#18016100)

People fleeing city centres is often not a matter of affordability but a choice on other criteria.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Life in the Spanish city that banned cars by deelowe on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @03:29PM (#18018374)

I have no issue with that. I just don't like being labeled a racist.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Life in the Spanish city that banned cars by astura on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @11:32AM (#18016125)

Nobody (and especially not the person you are replying to) said everyone who is white and moved to the suburbs is/was participating in "white flight."

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Life in the Spanish city that banned cars by liveoneggs on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @11:01AM (#18015881)

traditional white flight (1970's style) mostly ended in the early 2000's when traffic got bad enough and baby boomers started to age out of power. It's an outdated term in most cities I think.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Life in the Spanish city that banned cars by NPMaxwell on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @11:25AM (#18016075)

At least one of your challenges is addressed by the OP: "The constant noise"

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Life in the Spanish city that banned cars by amyjess on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @10:44AM (#18015750)

I agree wholeheartedly with you; like you I'm a proud suburbanite who can't tolerate cities, noise, and people, and to that I'll add one thing...

> Amazingly, non white people feel this way too...

On this note, almost the entire Asian population of the Dallas area lives in the suburbs, and those who can afford it are starting to move to the exurbs. Only people without the means to leave are staying in the city because the city sucks.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Life in the Spanish city that banned cars by oftenwrong on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @11:06AM (#18015918)

This article is about a city that doesn't suck, largely because it was made car-free. Not much "noise" when cars are gone.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Life in the Spanish city that banned cars by ummonk on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @11:32AM (#18016119)

It's a town with a population of 90k. It wouldn't suck either way.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Life in the Spanish city that banned cars by deelowe on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @03:30PM (#18018384)

Almost none of the noise issues I experienced while living in the city was from automobiles.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Life in the Spanish city that banned cars by amyjess on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @11:30AM (#18016110)

People make noise. People shouting in the streets, nearby festivals, etc. I don't like people, and there's no such thing as a dense city that doesn't suck for me.

[ Parent | on HN ]