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Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by bluecalm on Monday September 17, 2018 @03:59AM (#18003986)
Way more people benefited from Amazon. It's cheaper. It set a new standard in delivery times and customer support. Its existence improved life of millions of people by significant margin. That old industry got killed is natural when progress happens.
Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by csydas on Monday September 17, 2018 @04:46AM (#18004176)
I'm not sure I'd allow the delivery times and customer support to be attributed as a real thing to Amazon.

Both were meant as audience capturing tactics and were basically unattainable by most all other competitors due to costs -- Amazon only avoided it riding on a large wave of money and eating costs for years until it was the only game in town.

Now you can't have a thread about Amazon without constant complaints about the 2-Day shipping never really being 2-Day shipping, the constant fakes that plague the Amazon inventory (with a seemingly blind-eye from Amazon itself on it), and so on.

These weren't really public goods introduced by Amazon, as plenty of stores handle the customer service side just fine in most cases, and the delivery stuff was mostly just investors subsidizing the costs for a time, which appears to no longer be a major focal point.

Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by TheTrotters on Monday September 17, 2018 @05:30AM (#18004347)
Perhaps it’s selection bias. People who are happy with Amazon may not see the need to comment about it in every thread.

But to counter this trend: I am very, very happy that Amazon exists. It’s allowed me to discover and buy plenty of books that I otherwise would never read or sample. Not to mention dozens of everyday items I buy from them. Nail clippers, socks, alarm clock, router, resistance bands, headphones and many more I’m forgetting about.

It’s all under one roof, delivery is usually very fast (sometimes it’s just one day on two-day delivery; when there are some delays and it takes an extra day they always notify me by e-mail).

Amazon is great and I’m a more-than-satisfied consumer.

Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by ElBarto on Monday September 17, 2018 @05:41AM (#18004401)
It's not only about costs. It's really about hard work to deliver the best for customers.

Many online retailers simply do not make efforts to deliver, quite apart from any cost consideration, and then they moan about Amazon.

In addition, it's also about creating trust. Buying something online requires more trust than buying from a store so convincing people that it's safe and that there won't be any issues with returns and refunds is a big part of getting people to place and order and to come back.

Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by darawk on Monday September 17, 2018 @04:55AM (#18004213)
Except that you can still just as easily buy things from normal retailers. They're not dead. People choose not to because the value of obtaining things from Amazon remains higher to them.
Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by mrob on Monday September 17, 2018 @08:09AM (#18005069)
> I'm not sure I'd allow the delivery times and customer support to be attributed as a real thing to Amazon.

Amazon has "Amazon Lockers", which let me accept deliveries at a time convenient to me, with no human interaction. This is a real improvement over previous methods, and AFAIK no other retailer in my country has anything similar.

Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by coldtea on Monday September 17, 2018 @09:22AM (#18005677)
>Amazon has "Amazon Lockers", which let me accept deliveries at a time convenient to me, with no human interaction.

So, just like a post office box?

Not to mention that the raise of companies like Amazon and the "on demand" mentality is the one that forces people to not have more regular hours "convenient to them".

Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by mrob on Monday September 17, 2018 @09:55AM (#18005924)
Post office boxes are expensive, require filling in an application form, and require human interaction to access the contents. Amazon Lockers are included in the normal "free" delivery, require no paperwork, and are completely automated.
Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by itsmenotyou on Monday September 17, 2018 @05:27AM (#18004329)
That people benefited from internet shopping and delivery is not a defense of a company treating it's workers badly or evading paying taxes. Let's not pretend amazon is the only company that might have delivered those efficiencies, they were just the most successful, the most ruthless.
Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by bluecalm on Monday September 17, 2018 @07:32AM (#18004878)
You can't expect companies to fight for greater good and sacrifice their interests for the overall good. In fact it's against the law for them to do that. Amazon hires a lot of people and in many countries pay reasonably well. With taxes it does what the law allows.

If you want to change those things start with changing the law, ending policies hurting the working class (limiting low skill migration would be the first step) and getting rid of ridiculous taxes like corporate income tax you claim Amazon dodged (while in fact it pays what the law requires it to pay).

Blaming the player for playing the game well while taking care of what they are legally obliged to do (shareholder value) is neither smart nor constructive.

Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by macintux on Monday September 17, 2018 @08:45AM (#18005378)
> In fact it's against the law for them to do that.

No, it’s not. The corporation’s interests must align with the shareholders, but there’s no law that says short-term profit is the only legal goal. Companies can and have sacrificed in order to build the community.

Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by Nasrudith on Monday September 17, 2018 @02:11PM (#18008378)
Public trading often leads to that however with activist investors.

Anyone who sees them acting suboptomally for the short term can buy in, pressure for more short term interests and lobby to get their way then jump off before it collapses with their gains. Even without that scheming continuous gains are demanded generally.

Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by coldtea on Monday September 17, 2018 @09:24AM (#18005691)
>You can't expect companies to fight for greater good and sacrifice their interests for the overall good.

You can if the society and law demands that. E.g. throw them a few huge fines for using bad labor practices (e.g. workers not allowed to go to the toilet when they need to, firing pregnant women, other kinds of discrimination) and let's see what happens.

Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by mdex on Monday September 17, 2018 @09:01AM (#18005487)
I completely agree. One legal change that needs to happen to preserve the free market: company with a habit of employees using social assistance should not get tax breaks (or any other help) from the government. The taxpayer should not be subsidizing the paycheck of Amazon employees. The burden is on Amazon to pay their employees a competitive wage, it's their problem not mine.

Otherwise they have no incentive to pay their employees a competitive wage.

Without competitive wages you have no free market, you just have a corporate welfare state, where the cost of paying workers is taken from the workers themselves thru taxation. That's basically what some UBI shills want. They want state taxation and welfare to replace the onus of corporations to pay competitive wages to employees.

Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by coldtea on Monday September 17, 2018 @09:27AM (#18005717)
>I completely agree. One legal change that needs to happen to preserve the free market: company with a habit of employees using social assistance should not get tax breaks (or any other help) from the government.

No enterprise-size company should get any tax break, period. Only small companies or enterprises that can show they had a bad run (and e.g. might otherwise need to close).

Add to that a rule that if they then just go and take their offices/factories abroad (where they get a big tax break) they get hit with the equivalent savings in import tax is they want to sell in the domestic market.

Combine that with tiny or no tax for individuals (like it has been before the 20th century and is still in several places).

Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by pixl97 on Monday September 17, 2018 @08:15AM (#18005108)
Oh no, the foxes eat us, that is their job...

"Why dont we get rid of the foxes, we have the power to do that"

No, no, that seems like a silly idea, status quo is the best.

Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by ionised on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @05:37AM (#18013790)
> In fact it's against the law for them to do that.

No it isn't.

Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by andrepd on Monday September 17, 2018 @06:11AM (#18004557)
Shortening the delivery times from 3 to 2 days incurs a >40% increase in fuel costs. You claim the slight convenience of having stuff on your doorstep on Wednesday rather than Thursday not only outweighs that massive inefficiency and all its externalities, but is in fact a "significant improvement of the lives of millions of people".
Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by coldtea on Monday September 17, 2018 @09:20AM (#18005662)
>Way more people benefited from Amazon. It's cheaper. It set a new standard in delivery times and customer support. Its existence improved life of millions of people by significant margin.

Have you counted the lives and communities it destroyed (e.g. closing local alternatives and smaller chains)? The environmental cost from such large scale delivery of every possible BS? The externalities (including accumulated power to single person who contracts for the military industrial complex and runs newspapers)?

Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by KozmoNau7 on Monday September 17, 2018 @04:16AM (#18004054)
Amazon also set new lows for how to pay and treat employees, and how little it is possible to care about selling counterfeit products.
Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by TangoTrotFox on Monday September 17, 2018 @05:44AM (#18004421)
I never understand why people say things like this. It's not even remotely true. For instance we can quantify the salary comment. A quick search for fulfillment center work showed salaries starting at $12-$14/hour. The median pay for retail work, by contrast, is $11.24 [1], which means 50% of workers earn less than that.

It's not possible to similarly conveniently quantify concern about counterfeit, but if you think they genuinely do not care about it then I don't even know what to say. Even from a purely greed centered point of view, counterfeits hurt mid to longterm revenue.

[1] - https://www.bls.gov/ooh/sales/retail-sales-workers.htm

Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by KozmoNau7 on Monday September 17, 2018 @06:25AM (#18004612)
I base my impression of their working conditions on a friend of mine, who's worked both the warehouses and as a delivery driver. The managers are slave drivers, and if you're just a minute or two behind on a schedules delivery, you get dinged, a black mark on your employment record and a severe talking-down. Even if the delay is of no fault of your own (bad traffic, weather, etc.), it's seen as a personal failure on your part.

No level of pay can make up for being treated like shit.

Regarding the counterfeits, Amazon loves to say how they're dealing with the issue, but the examples just keep piling up. And of course their childish behavior around Chromecast and Youtube.

Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by a008t on Monday September 17, 2018 @05:31AM (#18004352)
Clearly they have been better than the alternatives for customers - otherwise, they would not be successful.

Employees also have a choice - Amazon is not a monopoly.

Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by KozmoNau7 on Monday September 17, 2018 @06:27AM (#18004624)
The customer's don't see the horrible conditions behind the scenes, all they see are cheap products.

If you're a delivery driver, your job options are extremely limited. You can deliver fast food, or deliver for companies like Amazon. It's either that, or starve.

Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by danielmg on Monday September 17, 2018 @09:19AM (#18005642)
Or learn another skill?
Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by KozmoNau7 on Monday September 17, 2018 @09:21AM (#18005665)
Not really something you can "just do", when you're living paycheck to paycheck and can barely even pay rent, even after moving to more affordable accommodation, while also keeping your ~15 year old car running, because it's your lifeline to even having a job in the first place.
Re:The Bezos backlash: Is 'big philanthropy' a charade? by ionised on Monday September 17, 2018 @05:59AM (#18004499)
> Clearly they have been better than the alternatives for customers - otherwise, they would not be successful.

Plenty of shitty companies are successful. They just need to. be more convenient than their competitors.

> Employees also have a choice - Amazon is not a monopoly.

Not yet.