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Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by paulcarroty on Friday September 14, 2018 @01:15PM (#17989005)
Apple delete apps which send telemetry to Chinese servers (2-3 days old news), Google don't care.

So, Android devices sucks with privacy and cheap space to farming to other companies. Heard some Chinese companies sell phones with ad injections in default apps.

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by jrockway on Friday September 14, 2018 @02:18PM (#17989498)
This seems awfully alarmist. There are a ton of apps that send telemetry to AWS servers in the US, and from there they could easily send the data back to China. Amazon doesn't care. Apple doesn't care about hosting your app's backend on AWS.

Network filtering isn't going to protect your privacy from anyone. If Apple (or Google) were really serious, they'd require app developers to have a privacy policy and have them post a bond in case they violate the policy. (They'd also need to audit every application backend to ensure that it's not sending data back to China.)

Nobody would write apps with this sort of policy in place... so here we are. If you really think the Chinese government is out to get you, which is a very real concern, I would not use any apps on your phone. The app developers do not care about your safety, and neither does Apple.

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by threeseed on Friday September 14, 2018 @03:15PM (#17990027)
Apple will actually require all developers to have a privacy policy by October 3rd.

http://fortune.com/2018/09/01/apple-app-store-privacy-policy...

And having developers post a bond is logistically impossible to implement. Far better just to have Apple kick them off the store entirely. Which is what they do already.

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by hanspeter on Saturday September 15, 2018 @12:53AM (#17993046)
Facebook has had a privacy policy requirement for all Facebook apps since they started their app platform.

It's quite amazing that Apple has not added this simple requirement to their app store until now.

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by TheKarateKid on Friday September 14, 2018 @05:59PM (#17991357)
> Far better just to have Apple kick them off the store entirely. Which is what they do already.

Or if you're big enough like Uber, just get a firm warning and be told to stop doing whatever it is that's wrong.

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by lern_too_spel on Friday September 14, 2018 @05:45PM (#17991240)
> Apple will actually require all developers to have a privacy policy by October 3rd.

A year and a half after their more privacy-conscious competition but good progress: https://www.iubenda.com/blog/privacy-policy-for-android-app/...

> And having developers post a bond is logistically impossible to implement.

Require a credit card at publisher signup. Explain it will be charged for violations.

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by freehunter on Friday September 14, 2018 @08:33PM (#17992194)
>their more privacy-conscious competition

I don't want to assume you're trolling, but this is literally the first time I've heard anyone ever say Google is more privacy conscious than Apple.

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by lern_too_spel on Saturday September 15, 2018 @12:02AM (#17992920)
That's the power of marketing for you. One required privacy policies while the other didn't. One asks before enabling AGPS data collection, while the other doesn't even let you opt out. One allows you to use on-device maps as default, while the other doesn't. One allows you to replace the default SMS app with Signal, while the other doesn't.

When you think of a toxic hellstew of vulnerabilities, you probably don't think of Apple either, even though its App Store infected more users with malware than all its competitors combined. https://researchcenter.paloaltonetworks.com/2015/09/malware-...

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by bobwaycott on Saturday September 15, 2018 @02:25AM (#17993259)
You’re either being extremely disingenuous here, or are missing/leaving out some important and relevant details.

The malware you’re referring to—XcodeGhost—was produced by compromised non-Apple copies of Xcode installers downloaded by (mostly) Chinese developers from non-Apple (Baidu) servers, who then produced iOS apps with the non-Apple Xcode. The modified copies of Xcode would inject malware into iOS app builds. The link you provided says nothing about actual numbers of end users with malware infections, much less that there were more users infected than all Apple’s competitors combined. It merely suggests potential number of users who could be affected if they installed known compromised versions of apps built with the non-Apple Xcode—and it provides no methodology for what these estimates of total potentially affected users is based on.

Privacy policies do nothing to actually protect user privacy. Facebook’s requiring of privacy policies hasn’t protected users or the company from multiple privacy fiascos.

What GPS data collection are you referring to here? Apple-collected data stays on user devices. Third-party apps are granted permission (or not) to use location services however they see fit. Location services can be disabled entirely. What third parties do with your location data is between you and them, not Apple.

iMessage being replaceable by Signal or any other app as a default messaging app says nothing about Apple’s commitment to user privacy. You are free to use Signal.

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by lern_too_spel on Saturday September 15, 2018 @01:18PM (#17995065)
I am not being disingenuous. You simply don't understand what I said.

The best outside estimates show XCodeGhost infected at least 400 million users. That estimate is from knowing which apps were infected and using publicly available estimates for their users. Apple didn't say how many exactly (or even warn its users about the malware) because Apple only pays lip service to security for marketing purposes.

> Privacy policies do nothing to actually protect user privacy.

You disagree with Apple on this then.

> What GPS data collection are you referring to here?

I told you exactly what data collection I was referring to there. Apple (not third parties) collects GPS data from user's phones to run its AGPS service. Unlike Android, which has an opt-in for this, Apple doesn't even let you opt out.

> You are free to use Signal.

But not as your default SMS app. Instead, you have to use Apple's closed source and unverified app.

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by rapnie on Friday September 14, 2018 @02:30PM (#17989627)
> Heard some Chinese companies sell phones with ad injections in default apps.

Don't need Chinese companies for that. When GDPR came into effect I received privacy policy msgs from adware (Foursquare) inside my standard Samsung Image Gallery. Not only Google, but Samsung as well is a horrible privacy nightmare.

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by jstarfish on Friday September 14, 2018 @01:54PM (#17989307)
> Heard some Chinese companies sell phones with ad injections in default apps.

Yep. I bought a cheap tablet off of Amazon with the only use for it needing to be able to read digital textbooks at close to their equivalent physical size. This was back when tablets larger than 7" were crazy expensive. This one wasn't.

It has so many ads injected into and between apps (full-screen popups on app change) that it's unusable for anything other than reading static content (which is luckily what I bought it for). Response time is on par with a 1st-gen Kindle.

I thought I'd be cute and implement DNS adblocking at the router level but that just causes crashes and hangs since they didn't see a need to implement a graceful failure mode for the ad callbacks.

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by tracker1 on Friday September 14, 2018 @04:03PM (#17990477)
I see a lot of websites that should have graceful failures do the same... can't log into one of my banks, and make a car payment without disabling uBlock (chrome/desktop) or Brave (android).

With the more recent changes in Firefox, I find the UX acceptable and may go through switching back... I've got a few things on google but may migrate out.

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by hjek on Friday September 14, 2018 @02:20PM (#17989515)
Well, at least you can easily get free/libre apps (without Chinese spyware) on Android with F-droid[0].

It would be more accurate to say that Google Play sucks.

[0]: https://f-droid.org/

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by krn on Friday September 14, 2018 @03:04PM (#17989931)
> Heard some Chinese companies sell phones with ad injections in default apps.

Cubot is a good example[1]:

"However, it was discovered that Cubot had removed the malware from the System UI package and hidden it under a new package, com.android.telephone, disguised as the phone dialer. On further digging, it was discovered that the new package does not have any real function and it manages to evade any detection by antivirus apps such as NetGuard, that would detect the malware under System UI previously."

[1] https://techweez.com/2017/09/19/cubot-malware/

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by baki on Friday September 14, 2018 @10:19PM (#17992607)
Or Dogee T5. It wakes you up at night with the noisy ads. terrible. It would be a quite good phone, but not. useless. One of the adwares is in the wireless update system app, others I don't remember already where are they exactly, but in system apps.
Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by JVIDEL on Saturday September 15, 2018 @07:57AM (#17993940)
Those are bottom of the barrel brands and the specs are pretty bad.

The only thing they have is low prices.

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by krn on Saturday September 15, 2018 @02:18PM (#17995398)
Umidigi[1] could also be added to the list, even though the phones are quite impressive on paper.

[1] http://www.umidigi.com/

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by philipov on Friday September 14, 2018 @01:26PM (#17989085)
Yeah, like Lenovo which sells laptops with preinstalled adware and MitM attacks.
Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by joering2 on Friday September 14, 2018 @01:40PM (#17989195)
Good point but they still make best laptops IMHO. I "eat" so many Toshibas, Sonys, Acers, even two Macs with Windows 7 on it...

The nice thing is they still give you drivers even to Windows 7.

When I get new Lenovo laptop, I immediately throw away their drive, put a bigger one and install Windows 7 from scratch.

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by danieldk on Friday September 14, 2018 @02:00PM (#17989350)
When I get new Lenovo laptop, I immediately throw away their drive, put a bigger one and install Windows 7 from scratch.

At least for some time, this was not good enough. The shipped crap/spyware in the firmware and exploited Windows Platform Binary Table to inject their spyware into freshly installed Windows. So, even a clean disk and an official Windows CD didn't evade the spyware:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/12/lenovo_firmware_nas...

Luckily, desktop Linux/BSD is probably too obscure to be on their radar.

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by minkiu on Friday September 14, 2018 @06:03PM (#17991389)
Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by spacehome on Friday September 14, 2018 @10:06PM (#17992560)
That's disgusting. I wish this were illegal, because people deserve to be in jail over this.
Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by matheusmoreira on Friday September 14, 2018 @11:08PM (#17992756)
That's incredibly abusive.
Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by snaky on Friday September 14, 2018 @05:18PM (#17991040)
You can install XPrivacy [1] on your Android device. You cannot do that with Apple device.

[1] https://forum.xda-developers.com/xposed/modules/xprivacylua6...

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by scarface74 on Friday September 14, 2018 @06:16PM (#17991490)
You don't need to. Unlike early versions of Android and apps that still link to older versions, with iOS, you have never had a list of permissions you had to accept before launching the app. The app ask permission when you need a feature and you can deny it the permission. After it asks once (three times?), it will never ask for the permission again and you have to go to settings to enable the permission.
Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by drdaeman on Friday September 14, 2018 @06:52PM (#17991738)
You have a point but are also mistaken. XPrivacy does way more granular access checks than Android or iOS provide. The downside is, it's not casual user-friendly.

With XPrivacy you're able (or used to be able - I'm not sure if it works on recent Android versions) control things like how apps can use WebViews (e.g. what URLs they are allowed to open there), or whenever app is allowed to read or write (all separately) clipboard data. Etc etc.

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by scarface74 on Friday September 14, 2018 @07:48PM (#17992007)
I’m looking at a list of permissions here:

https://github.com/M66B/XPrivacy/blob/master/README.md

Most of these permissions either require individual consent after you run the app (and can be revoked in settings) or aren’t allowed under any circumstances.

The exceptions I see are:

Clipboard

Internet access (you can block cellular internet access on iOS and 3rd party keyboards can be blocked from allowing any network access)

Prevent links from opening in a view - depending on which type of web view that an app uses, the native content blocking framework that third party ad blockers use for Safari also work in the WebView. For instance, the ad blocker I have installed works with Feedly - my RSS reader.

The only sensor I think that can be blocked is the GPS.

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by snaky on Friday September 14, 2018 @09:51PM (#17992504)
XPrivacy is not about blocking, it's about faking.

PrivacyGuard in LineageOS is about blocking.

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by scarface74 on Friday September 14, 2018 @10:48PM (#17992693)
How is “faking” it better than just not allowing it all? iOS Developers have had to handle being denied permissions gracefully since 2008.
Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by DrJaws on Friday September 14, 2018 @11:46PM (#17992876)
some apps don't work if the permissions are blocked. With xprivacy you can tell them

My phone number is 000 000 000 and my email is [email protected]

and they work fine then

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by scarface74 on Saturday September 15, 2018 @12:20AM (#17992962)
And iOS doesn’t need that bandaid. App developers have been developing with the expectation that their apps could be denied permissions they request since day one.
Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by drdaeman on Saturday September 15, 2018 @10:56AM (#17994492)
Except for stuff that iOS doesn't ask and even implement a permission for. Like UIDevice.identifierForVendor.
Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by DrJaws on Friday September 14, 2018 @11:47PM (#17992881)
Yes, you have more privacy with xprivacy, but at the same time, for running it, you need root access and install xposed, so you get +10 points for privacy and -5000 for security
Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by snaky on Saturday September 15, 2018 @02:14AM (#17993236)
Do you have a root access on your Linux PC? Does it add -5000 for security?
Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by DrJaws on Sunday September 16, 2018 @06:47AM (#17998296)
I have and I don't give access to root to my software. Also on my linux computer I can patch the very same moment there is a vulnerability, on my phone I can only patch security fixes when the manufacturer wants and only usually for 1 or 2 years.

Also, have you really audited the code of xposed and xprivacy to see that there isn't any single security flaw that expose your whole phone?

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by lenkite on Saturday September 15, 2018 @12:56AM (#17993050)
Android !== OnePlus