> I'm very outgoing, but I have love shyness or something like that. I basically don't date. I find the entire thing extremely stressful and unbearable. I've always been alone.

I can relate to this a lot. If I may make a recommendation - despite the awful name, Models[0] by Mark Manson[1] did a lot to re-frame my interaction with women I'm romantically interested in. It takes the refreshing approach that rather than learning tricks or lines like other male-oriented dating books this one comes from a place of honesty and vulnerability. He has a blog [2] if you want a taste of his writing.

[0] https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty-... [1] Better known for his book 'The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck' [2] https://markmanson.net/archive

" I basically don't date. I find the entire thing extremely stressful and unbearable"

I had the same problem. I am sure you have heard this before"you regret what you do not do, not what you did". So SUCK IT UP, and get out there. After a few dates, you will thank me. But I agree the short term sucks, but it will be worth it.

I assure you, there are many many things in life that you will regret doing if you have any sense of shame or a conscience.

Yes but there are very few things in life that you can't make better however it is very difficult to make up for lost time

I'm 21, never asked a girl out. I'm same as you, I think I'm pretty outgoing and generally social (not to social, but I'm ok I guess) and I'm good looking too (I go to the gym 5 days a week). But the whole dating thing seems almost pointlessly stressful to me, I don't even quite know how to do it and at this age it seems embarrassing to be this inexperienced.

Social activities, like all others need to be practiced regularly to become good at them.

Quick question, which produces better results, going to the gym, or thinking about going to the gym over and over in your head? How about public speaking?

Think of it as a muscle to be exercised. An actor friend of mine described acting in the same manner.

But it just seems impossible to practice. I'm 21 years old and at this age everyone has a lot of expectations about their partners but I know that I cannot fulfill those expectations, exactly because of what you said (because I never practiced those muscles). It just feels very strongly like if I ever ask a girl out I'll just make a dick out of myself. Ok, see I'm NOT shy, if I see you in a conference, I'l talk to you. I don't have social anxiety or whatever too. It just feels there is a very high probability me insulting the girl I'm hitting on (and PLEASE don't tell me "you don't have to hit on a girl, just become friends" I have tons of girl friends and that never works, if you don't ask a girl out, no matter how often you guys hang out, you're just always friends. And that's the barrier I keep hitting all the time) and thus ruining everything in a horrible manner.

As mixmastamyk said, it's exactly the same as the gym (I work out ~5 days a week too and I started from being the least athletic person in school/college).

I hear people say — I'm already 30 and starting to exercise is too late, or that they're intimidated by other people at the gym, or that they don't know where to start. Having gone through a similar experience as yours, I gotta say you just have to start. Don't overthink it. You'll fail. Try again, keep at it, and eventually there'll be a breaking point.

Good luck.

Yep, there’s a startup adage about “failing faster,” same idea.

Might be different nowadays but back when malls were a thing you could just go down to the mall and practice. 1st step for me was to set a goal to approach 100 women (or 50 or 20, whatever you can do) and go do it. They’re all strangers so it doesn’t matter if you goof up or look silly. Don’t focus on the results at first, just the process and mechanics of approaching, and review later what worked and didn’t. It’s like learning any sport or skill. Study, practice, review.

Us Europeans don't have it so easy when the whole city knows each other.

> everyone has a lot of expectations about their partners

This is the thinking you have to get away from. The expectations are not that great, and if you think they are, this just makes you more anxious. You'll be surprised how forgiving/nice/helpful people can be when you're vulnerable or screw up. So go and do it anyway, and ask forgiveness later.

Sign up for a dating website. Don't expect too much out of any particular interaction. Just try to learn from each one and get better. It helps knowing that everybody there is more or less on the same page.

I was in that situation.

I discovered that worst-case situations were actually easier, because failure was expected and thus didn't hurt.

Asking out a plain girl was difficult. Asking out an ugly one meant that a rejection would be devastating. ("even the ugly ones reject me")

So, what to do...? I marched myself out to the city park and ordered myself to approach the hottest women I could find.

One day I walked through the park and spotted an impossibly beautiful woman in a skimpy bikini. She was lying on a stone bench, covered in tanning oil. I walked past thinking "damn...", and then I had to walk past her again just to get another look. Then a silly thought popped into my head: "ask her out". Ha, ha, ha... no seriously, do it. You have to. After passing by a few more times, I said to myself that it was hopeless but I'd be kicking myself if I didn't try. Go on, get the rejection, it doesn't matter. She could get any guy, so it doesn't reflect badly. It's just practice. It's good to practice so you don't fumble over your words.

Well, she took me home with her.

I froze hard with shyness soon afterward, but hey, it was progress. Each time gets easier.

[deleted]

Note that I didn't suggest that I thought she'd only judge me on looks. I also was not a doctor or lawyer, and I didn't have the social skills of a politician.

Fundamentally, rejection hurts. The more you get rejected, the more it hurts, because you can no longer excuse it as being about the other person. Recovering from a rejection can take years.

I used to have something similar in terms of dating. Not sure how old you are but once you do it once it gets easier. I had a near death experience at about 25 and a friend showed a romantic interest and we were together for a long while after that. My problem is that I either wasn't interested in anyone or I fell in love completely with all the issues that can cause but for a lot of people dating isn't quite like that...

If you don't mind me asking, how old are you? I always dream of this kind of stuff but then convince myself I am too old for this. I am 31.

I'm 38, almost 39 next month ;-)

I'm having a blast. Best move of my life! The only thing I slightly regret is not doing it 10 years ago. But it's still ok.

I'm loving the place (Tokyo), the culture, the opportunities, the food, the way of life, and I'm making tons of friends.

If I can get proficient in the language (it's looking good, I'm top of the class for now) I'll look for a job here, hopefully for an American tech company. I have a CS degree and 10+ years of experience. English is my 2nd language, but I'm way ahead than in Japanese, plus I'd rather work in a US- or EU-style workplace, because Japanese companies are scary places.

I'd love to make a tech startup, I have tons of ideas. But that will depend on connections, opportunities, and visa status.

Finally, girls seem to be more interested in me here, and the social dynamics seem more... relaxed? so I may have a chance to overcome my struggle. But the first step is getting good at the actual language.

Im 36. Just do it now. Youre younger than you think and in 10 years you’ll just wish you had done it anyway.

Somewhat similar situation, though living in Tokyo already for quite a while. It would be lovely if we could hang out once.

I'd love to!

Can you contact me at username at gmail? This also goes for anybody else who would like to meet for a drink, or for whatever question about studying / moving to Japan.

sent

Are you at a language school? I started learning Japanese recently, and would love to move there one day.

Yes, Intercultural Institute of Japan. Awesome school, from all points of view.

You need someone to work out the papers and details for you. That can be your local language school, if you have one, or an international service such as Go Go Nihon.

I strongly recommend getting good at hiragana, katakana, and learning the writing (not the reading) of all 2,200 common kanji before coming here. It will make a huge difference in your rate of learning.

I would focus on that, because they already cover grammar and vocabulary at a reasonable pace here at school. I used Heisig's book and the excellent Kanji Koohii website/progressive app. It's a long business, but not hard at all. It just takes time and dedication, say 1–2 hours every day for several months. But you can and should split that time into small chunks all throughout the day. Basically, whenever you're not actively working, sleeping, or driving, take out your phone and use that app.

Also, if English is your 1st language, get a pronunciation coach. The vowels and many consonants are completely different. If you happen to be Italian, then you're in luck, because we have 99% the same sounds as Japanese. (Only the U is slightly different.)

Is the dating/relationships thing more of a problem in the context of Japan, or just in general?

No, in general. If anything, here I'm an "exotic" person who has done a "brave" thing (moving to another continent) and therefore I seem to be more "interesting" than I was back home. Time will tell.