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Re:How To Get Your Own Fanboys by alex_c on Thursday May 01, 2008 @01:49AM (#178144)
A long rant about why Apple has a fanatical following, and the word "design" is only mentioned once?

Good design is strangely lacking in the tech industry. Sony has it (sometimes). In the mp3 player area, IRiver had it (briefly), but it wasn't enough. When looking for a laptop recently, I was dismayed at how plain bad most Windows laptops look (for the record, I ended up choosing between a Dell and a Sony, and went with the Sony because I didn't want to wait 2 weeks). Microsoft is a consistent case study of how NOT to do design. Whatever else Apple might do wrong, design isn't one of them.

Let me put it another way. If the auto world only gave you two choices - '88 Ford Taurus knock-offs and Lexus - I'm willing to bet Lexus owners would be a lot more fanatical.

Re:How To Get Your Own Fanboys by mattmaroon on Thursday May 01, 2008 @02:01AM (#178153)
Perhaps. I just think that design is the reason most people would attribute it to, and it's certainly a part, but it's only a part. There's clearly more to it than that, because lots of industries have only one company with good aesthetic sense, yet almost none have fanboys.

Agreed on iRiver. Their players were so much better than Apple's for one or two generations, and then they degraded rapidly. I can't imagine what went wrong there.

Re:How To Get Your Own Fanboys by vlad on Thursday May 01, 2008 @02:31AM (#178173)
Re:How To Get Your Own Fanboys by mattmaroon on Thursday May 01, 2008 @04:39AM (#178240)
Wow, does that take me back. I had the original Diamond Rio back in the day (though the second, 64mb generation) which I bought from Best Buy for $300. I remember how freaking happy I was with it too. What was that, 1998? 99?

I soooooooo wish I hadn't sold that on eBay.

Re:How To Get Your Own Fanboys by dangoldin on Thursday May 01, 2008 @09:35AM (#178384)
Definitely takes me back too: "Aside from the massive 128MB of storage, this is where the PC kicks the most ass."
Re:How To Get Your Own Fanboys by apotheon on Thursday May 01, 2008 @01:46PM (#178673)
Much of Apple's design aesthetic appeal is in its hardware. Microsoft has no control over the design of most of the hardware people use with its OS. The same goes for other OSes like Debian and FreeBSD. So, while I agree that MS Windows isn't the best-looking OS around, a significant chunk of Apple's advantage in the design arena has nothing to do with any mistakes on Microsoft's part -- unless you think it's a mistake to let one's OS run on other people's hardware. For a closed source shop like Microsoft (or Apple), that might be a reasonable argument, but it doesn't mean bad things about Microsoft's design choices -- just its business choices.
Re:How To Get Your Own Fanboys by alex_c on Thursday May 01, 2008 @11:10PM (#179208)
I agree about the hardware design (Microsoft actually made(?) some pretty good peripherals).

I was referring more to software design. I have never encountered so many plain boneheaded interface decisions as in Microsoft products, from roughly Win95 up to and including WinXP. I'm not even talking about ugly (which I can forgive), I'm talking about simply unusable - tiny text areas without scrollbars in which you sometimes have to input a large amount of text, or worse, text inputs instead of text areas. Tabs being used where they really shouldn't, resulting in dialogs with up to 5 rows of tabs, and with extra "Advanced" buttons on some of the tabs that bring up another pop-up. That kind of stuff. Vista and the new Office have been really pleasant surprises so far in this respect.