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Re:Backpage.com’s Founders Speak for the First Time by ryanlol on Tuesday August 21, 2018 @05:10PM (#17813874)
>cooperate with law enforcement to help stop it happening; do nothing; or cooperate with the kidnappers to earn more money. They chose to cooperate with the traffickers.

This is ludicrous on its face. Backpage obviously wasn't earning any meaningful amounts of money from child prostitution.

Re:Backpage.com’s Founders Speak for the First Time by tptacek on Tuesday August 21, 2018 @05:38PM (#17814080)
I too am a little mystified by why they chose to do what they did because I agree with you that there just can't be that much money in child trafficking. But the indictment has a lot of details, some of it supported by quotes in emails; it seems pretty likely that they did do stuff. Why? Maybe just ideology?

There's a lot in the indictment to suggest that they don't take child sex trafficking seriously as a problem. They joke about it ("entrapment.com"). They take meetings and disregard the information they're given. They're on the record declining to adopt things they say are "good ideas" because they don't have enough "P.R. value". I think the balance of information we have strongly suggests that Lacey and Larking just DGAF.

This is the problem I have with the Standard Internet Discussion on Backpage.com. It invariably focuses on the harm reduction argument. I'm prepared to buy the harm reduction argument! But someone responsible needs to run that site; the people who actually ran it belong in prison.

Re:Backpage.com’s Founders Speak for the First Time by stickfigure on Tuesday August 21, 2018 @05:50PM (#17814153)
You keep asserting this, yet despite repeated requests from myself and others you still have not pointed out the parts of the indictment that are presumably so convincing.

If it's so clearcut, give us the article numbers and let's talk about specifics. The indictment is easy enough to read.

This whole subthread is starting to sound like the McMartin Preschool case.

Re:Backpage.com’s Founders Speak for the First Time by michaelmrose on Wednesday August 22, 2018 @03:07PM (#17821105)
In the McMartin Preschool case the allegations were utterly fantastic. We had a bunch of Satan worshippers abusing children in a dungeon dug beneath the school that they would have had to have dug with spoons as people would have certainly noticed a backhoe and a bunch of construction workers digging the sex dungeon.

No actual crimes were committed and there were no victims. In this case the facts are entirely pedestrian and the victims real. It seems pretty clear that people were abused. The only real question is how guilty are the people running Backpage.

Since they were running a page selling people and seemed at best disinterested in not selling children I'd say very. If you sell produce you acquire along with customers money the obligation to ensure that the produce you sell is safe and doesn't cause your customers to die of food poisoning.

If you sell sex it seems people selling children for sex is a foreseeable risk that they did at best NOTHING to mitigate.

I'm not sure why some people seem apt to defend them.

Re:Backpage.com’s Founders Speak for the First Time by pharrington on Tuesday August 21, 2018 @06:14PM (#17814311)
In the McMartin Preschool case, 0 children were found to be abused by the accused.
Re:Backpage.com’s Founders Speak for the First Time by philwelch on Tuesday August 21, 2018 @07:02PM (#17814647)
I mean, it's an indictment.

If you want some proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the proprietors of BackPage.com committed the crimes they are accused of, that's totally fair, and that's also what the criminal justice system is supposed to produce as an end result.

Re:Backpage.com’s Founders Speak for the First Time by tptacek on Tuesday August 21, 2018 @05:59PM (#17814213)
"Article numbers"?
[dead]
Re:Backpage.com’s Founders Speak for the First Time by tptacek on Tuesday August 21, 2018 @06:18PM (#17814338)
Yeah that sounds super productive.
Re:Backpage.com’s Founders Speak for the First Time by GW150914 on Tuesday August 21, 2018 @09:17PM (#17815416)
Productive or not, here’s the reference you can use the next time this comes up.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17815396

It does in fact completely validate your position, although I guess you know that.

Re:Backpage.com’s Founders Speak for the First Time by tptacek on Tuesday August 21, 2018 @09:32PM (#17815510)
oh my god
Re:Backpage.com’s Founders Speak for the First Time by stickfigure on Tuesday August 21, 2018 @08:30PM (#17815134)
If you want people to take you seriously when you say "there's horrible things in the indictment", seems like it would be productive to actually be able to cite those things.
Re:Backpage.com’s Founders Speak for the First Time by tptacek on Tuesday August 21, 2018 @09:32PM (#17815506)
I'm pretty comfortable with who does and doesn't take me seriously. I've been dragging up details from the indictment all day on the thread. I'm not going to take the time to go tie them back to paragraph numbers for you; that seems like a colossal waste of time for both of us.
Re:Backpage.com’s Founders Speak for the First Time by pharrington on Tuesday August 21, 2018 @05:23PM (#17813972)
How is that obvious? I, offhand, don't know how to obtain Backpage's financial records. Can you provide evidence or a sound logical argument demonstrating that Backpage obviously didn't earn meaningful (maybe we have different meanings of this word?) amounts of money from ads for child sex slaves?
Re:Backpage.com’s Founders Speak for the First Time by ryanlol on Tuesday August 21, 2018 @05:27PM (#17813996)
https://www.newsweek.com/backpagecom-made-500-million-prosti...

Are you guys really suggesting that open child prostitution is so prevalent in the US that it could possibly make up more than a fraction of a ‰ of backpages business? That sounds completely asinine to me.

These guys were literally drowning in money from normal escort ads, why on earth would they want underage escort ads?

Re:Backpage.com’s Founders Speak for the First Time by michaelmrose on Wednesday August 22, 2018 @03:22PM (#17821240)
In actual practice they didn't want to know or do anything about the legality or illegality of the transactions they were facilitating because a large portion of their draw is the the hands off nature. Its likely that a good chunk of the ads were in fact for over 18 individuals but neither we nor backpage probably know how much was illegal.
Re:Backpage.com’s Founders Speak for the First Time by pharrington on Tuesday August 21, 2018 @05:35PM (#17814051)
That is neither a sound logical argument, nor is it evidence towards your point.

And to answer your question, Yes. Do you have much familiarity with the various systems in which child sex trafficking happens in the US? If not, that ignorance may be a huge factor towards the dissonance you're displaying.