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Re:Vanguard Warns of Worsening Odds for the Economy and Markets by h4b4n3r0 on Monday August 13, 2018 @09:22PM (#17754933)
>> Vanguard tracks data to predict the likelihood of a recession at certain points in the future.

Having read nearly the entire literary output of one Nassim Taleb, I'd like to see the results of past predictions on this one. I'm pretty sure it will show that this "tracking" carries no actual predictive power.

Re:Vanguard Warns of Worsening Odds for the Economy and Markets by panarky on Monday August 13, 2018 @10:44PM (#17755231)
They're not making a prediction.

"We don’t make any actual predictions about where things are going next month or, in the markets, next year. The stock market could rise a lot, short-term. We don’t know."

Vanguard's model says the probability of a recession by late 2020 is between 30% and 40%, which is higher than normal.

That also means that the probability of no recession by late 2020 is between 60% and 70%, which is lower than normal.

Re:Vanguard Warns of Worsening Odds for the Economy and Markets by h4b4n3r0 on Monday August 13, 2018 @11:19PM (#17755363)
I don’t know how to say this any more plainly: anyone who predicts such things is 100% full of shit. It’s a random process. Anyone able to predict this with a significant degree of certainty would quickly become a multi-trillionaire. Insanely huge financial institutions employing thousands of PhDs were not able to predict the last big one and many of them would have collapsed without government’s help. What makes you think anyone has the foggiest clue as to the timing and severity of the next black swan event?
Re:Vanguard Warns of Worsening Odds for the Economy and Markets by panarky on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @01:07AM (#17755702)
Any student of Taleb should know that "black swan" events are rare, unexpected, extreme outliers.

Economic recessions are none of these. They are common, expected, and well within the experience of most adults.

Booms and busts have been recurring semi-regularly since the beginning of market economies.

While it would be foolish to predict with any great certainty the date or duration of the next downturn, we can say with high confidence that a downturn will occur.

It doesn't seem unreasonable to observe that recessions are more likely when the yield curve is flat and valuations are historically high than when the yield curve is steep and valuations are more moderate.

Re:Vanguard Warns of Worsening Odds for the Economy and Markets by katzgrau on Monday August 13, 2018 @11:42PM (#17755449)
Agreed. There are an unlimited number of variables that cannot all be accounted for, and even the most insignificant of them have the ability impact the future in dramatic ways. There is absolutely no saying what the likelihood of a recession is.
Re:Vanguard Warns of Worsening Odds for the Economy and Markets by st26 on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @12:06AM (#17755520)
There is absolutely no saying what the likelihood of a recession is.

Agreed, unlike every other random event that exists in the universe, recessions are the one thing whose likelyhood cannot possibly be expressed.

Re:Vanguard Warns of Worsening Odds for the Economy and Markets by chrisco255 on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @01:44AM (#17755830)
Problem here is it's not a repeatable experiment. The sample size is 1 world economy.
Re:Vanguard Warns of Worsening Odds for the Economy and Markets by lucisferre on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @09:57PM (#17763274)
This is a fair comment and I'm not sure why you were downvoted. However it is not a single random event either. A continuous random process with memory would probably be the most appropriate model, and this would be what Vanguard and others use to make estimations of likelihood.
Re:Vanguard Warns of Worsening Odds for the Economy and Markets by lucisferre on Monday August 13, 2018 @11:50PM (#17755472)
Both of you seem to be confusing estimating the likelihood of a random event with predicting the event’a occurrence. These are not remotely the same.
Re:Vanguard Warns of Worsening Odds for the Economy and Markets by h4b4n3r0 on Monday August 13, 2018 @11:55PM (#17755486)
No, it’s the downvoters who are confused. :-)
Re:Vanguard Warns of Worsening Odds for the Economy and Markets by aptwebapps on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @12:41AM (#17755637)
>> In recent years, the company has put the probability of a recession six months out at close to 10 percent. Now, Vanguard says the chances of one by late 2020 are between 30 and 40 percent. That’s Vanguard’s highest-ever estimate for that time frame, Mr. Davis said. (A six-month forecast reported a greater than 40 percent probability before the recession that started in December 2007.)

The parenthetical was the interesting part to me. I would love to see some long-term data on their forecasts.

Re:Vanguard Warns of Worsening Odds for the Economy and Markets by curuinor on Monday August 13, 2018 @10:00PM (#17755059)
By the very nature of vanguard, except for its tiny, tiny managed funds, vanguard doesn't ever do shit with this knowledge. Just continues following the index.
Re:Vanguard Warns of Worsening Odds for the Economy and Markets by tanderson92 on Monday August 13, 2018 @10:25PM (#17755164)
Over 25% of Vanguard AUM are not in indexed products.
Re:Vanguard Warns of Worsening Odds for the Economy and Markets by whack on Monday August 13, 2018 @10:32PM (#17755185)
Didn't Taleb himself predict the past recession, although using very different methodologies.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/risk-experts-who-predicted-200...

Re:Vanguard Warns of Worsening Odds for the Economy and Markets by redisman on Monday August 13, 2018 @11:56PM (#17755494)
Anyone who goes into the prediction game is gonna lose. Funny how these big name economist never seem to learn.
Re:Vanguard Warns of Worsening Odds for the Economy and Markets by h4b4n3r0 on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @12:34AM (#17755618)
Taleb says exactly this in nearly every chapter.
Re:Vanguard Warns of Worsening Odds for the Economy and Markets by Apocryphon on Monday August 13, 2018 @09:55PM (#17755046)
Aren't we near the end of a 7-10 year cycle regardless?
Re:Vanguard Warns of Worsening Odds for the Economy and Markets by nur0n on Monday August 13, 2018 @11:15PM (#17755346)
Based on historical data, how accurate would it be to say that a recession happens every 7-10 years? What percent of recessions(for some definition of recession) follow this pattern? Are there different patterns for different kinds of economic/political environments? Does anyone know of a good analysis that a layman could understand?
Re:Vanguard Warns of Worsening Odds for the Economy and Markets by dragonwriter on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @12:33AM (#17755612)
> Based on historical data, how accurate would it be to say that a recession happens every 7-10 years?

Starting with the Great Recession and working backwards to and including the Great Depression, the gap from the previous US recession for each recession has been:

  6y, 1 m
  10y
  7y, 8m
  1y
  4y, 10m
  3y
  8y, 10m
  2y
  3y, 3m
  3y, 9m
  3y, 1m
  6y, 8m
  4y, 2m
  1y, 9m
Only 3 of 14 of those gaps were in the 7-10 year range, and all of the rest are shorter.
Re:Vanguard Warns of Worsening Odds for the Economy and Markets by h4b4n3r0 on Monday August 13, 2018 @10:12PM (#17755101)
“Cycle” is a myth. There is no guarantee that any pattern you have seen in the past will repeat in any shape or form in the future.
Re:Vanguard Warns of Worsening Odds for the Economy and Markets by mistermann on Monday August 13, 2018 @10:22PM (#17755147)
That it's not a guarantee of the future in no way nullifies the existence of business cycles. They exist, or they do not.
Re:Vanguard Warns of Worsening Odds for the Economy and Markets by rosser on Monday August 13, 2018 @11:15PM (#17755343)
The presence of a cycle and its periodicity or predictability are not remotely the same thing.
Re:Vanguard Warns of Worsening Odds for the Economy and Markets by mistermann on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @01:22AM (#17755744)
I completely agree, although maybe it wasn't clear.