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Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by thinkingkong on Monday August 13, 2018 @02:04PM (#17752183)
Seeing as this comes up every so often, what in your opinion are the elements missing in todays current banking system - either as a consumer or a developer - that you would like to see?
Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by gwking on Monday August 13, 2018 @02:54PM (#17752599)
I used to pay my very old landlord with personal checks for a chase account. At some point somebody, (I suspect the part time janitor) got my account number and tried to commit check fraud nearby. This was unsophisticated, an inkjet printer sort of attempt, but nevertheless forced me to close the account, get new numbers, and update all of my direct deposit and bill pay settings on other accounts. It cost me many hours and at least one late fee.

So the obvious feature I would like from a regular, boring checking account is one-time random numbers for everything. Every check should have a unique, completely opaque number. Every time anyone wants an account number for direct deposit, wire transfer, bill pay, or anything else, I should be able to instantly generate a new, disposable number that works until I chose to retire it.

Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by rgersten on Monday August 13, 2018 @02:20PM (#17752320)
I'll bite :)

* Quick and customizable bill pay for onetime or recurring payments * Integration with peer-to-peer transfer systems (Zelle, Venmo, Paypal, etc.) * Simple budgeting tools and analytics. Doesn't have to be mint, just have something. * No ATM fees * Easy and fast transfers to other banking institutions * API to allow for devs and other apps to integrate basic functions * Good customer service - let me talk to a real person * All the functionality available from an app. Don't make me log into a desktop browser to access certain features. * Clear descriptions of different types of accounts * Credit reporting

That's all I can think of right now but there are probably a ton of other issues we hit daily that could be solved. Though I have no idea of the regulatory hurdles of implementing these and other solutions.

Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by stevekemp on Monday August 13, 2018 @02:33PM (#17752422)
Interesting how a lot of these problems don't seem to exist in Europe. (I lived in Scotland, then moved to Finland. Of course I appreciate "Europe" is full of diverse companies, regulations, and facilities. Still I think it would be wierd to find people in Europe paying rent by mailing physical checks, etc.)

Specifically "ATM Fees" are something I've never had to deal with, fast transfers were the norm, simple analytics were common-place. (Things like pie-charts showing where your money had been spent from your "checking account".)

The only thing that has always been missing from companies I've used has been easy-to-automate-exports of data. You could login and export manually to CSV, etc, but you couldn't easily script that. That seems to be changing at the moment, and EU-wide there are provisions being made for exporting and API-usage (though I suspect it'll all be terrible.)

The Nordea bank I use in Finland has a very nice little mobile app for showing my my accounts, mortgages, and investments. It also lets me schedule appointments, or call customer-support.

Customer service is hard though; much like delivery companies there are only so many banks to choose from. Name any name and ten people will say "Worst. Bank. Ever". I've used maybe five banks in my life-time, and none were terrible, even if some were better than average.

Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by twic on Monday August 13, 2018 @03:48PM (#17753026)
> "ATM Fees" are something I've never had to deal with

Really? There are lots of little independent ATMs around the UK that charge a fee, and if you use a UK card abroad, there's a fee. They're not huge, but they're not zero.

Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by stevekemp on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @12:18AM (#17755566)
When I was in the UK I used the link network, and to the best of my knowledge never paid a fee to withdraw money.

You're right about using UK-cards abroad, which I guess I'd forgotten about, though!

Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by confounded on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @12:23AM (#17755581)
Only the little grey ‘liquor store ATMs’. Most ATMs are run by banks, and it doesn’t matter which bank owns the ATM, you can get cash without a fee.
Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by twic on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @07:18AM (#17756878)
Right. I avoid the corner shop ATMs when i can, but i can't always, because there aren't proper cash machines everywhere. I'd be surprised if someone else had a different experience.
Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by Jtsummers on Monday August 13, 2018 @03:28PM (#17752872)
Regarding APIs: Let us use access keys that limit what the API can see/do. I don't like that Mint can do almost anything to my account by virtue of having a password. I just want to be able to reliably collect transaction and/or balance information, nothing more (which is already a lot, but I manually or semi-automatically collect this at the moment rather than using an API).

Let the user generate an API key that is (somehow) transmitted to the application with limited access. Then the user, at the bank's site, can revoke these authentications at any time. Stopped using YNAB? Revoke its key. Stopped using Mint? Revoke its key. Started using gnucash? Add a key.

Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by y-c-o-m-b on Monday August 13, 2018 @03:38PM (#17752938)
I was just thinking this exact thing. It's reckless to provide a third party your direct banking credentials. I feel unsafe entering those credentials into my browser as it is - but to share it with a third party product gives me the creeps. It's so stupidly easy to generate an access token that can be shared with third parties and restrict access to read-only. Why they didn't think of that is beyond me; the tech has been available for a very long time.
Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by Jtsummers on Monday August 13, 2018 @03:45PM (#17752999)
Want to know something really annoying? I bank with multiple banks. One institution uses access tokens. I can link them to my primary bank (the primary has a better "whole picture" view). But does my primary bank offer access tokens of their own? No. They understand the concept, but don't use it themselves.

Of course, I know why. Different teams. There's no cohesive vision to their IT work, same as every other enterprise out there.

EDIT: Cleaned up language. Removed some info I didn't really want here but really botched the posted version when I did.

Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by venantius on Monday August 13, 2018 @05:20PM (#17753732)
In Europe, PSD2 and the Open Banking initiatives provide this. All retail and commercial banks are required to provide open APIs to Account Information Service Providers or Payment Initiation Service Providers (the former being read-only, the latter read and write). Essentially you're talking about a delegated access / OAuth-style universe for banks and technology companies. It'd be great to see the US adopt something similar.
Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by amelius on Monday August 13, 2018 @02:50PM (#17752568)
> API to allow for devs and other apps to integrate basic functions

If the API is sufficiently standardized, that could turn banks into commodities: let third-party software figure out the best bank to store your money at any given time, and do all the accounting for you; no need to actually deal with any specific bank manually.

Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by athenot on Monday August 13, 2018 @03:43PM (#17752984)
I've been looking at Simple.com as it seems to check off some of those features.

If anyone has any feedback about their service, I'd love to hear about it. From what I understand they don't support checks; only debit cards. But that allows them to not charge any fees since all the transactions happen online.

Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by Jtsummers on Monday August 13, 2018 @03:56PM (#17753082)
Ok (for checking) interest rates. Haven't used them for billing yet (I don't think they do proper e-billing, instead they'll send a check for you). I won't say 0 fees. They have fees (like most banks) if you use the card outside the US, but that's why I have my two travel credit cards (AMEX and Visa because not everyone accepts the former, but it gives me the best rewards).

The budgeting is neat, though they added a new "expense" budgeting thing that I haven't quite figured out yet. Previously they had "goals" which you'd set up one at a time, burn through. Like "August Lunch Money" with $200 in the account by 31 August (give me a little to spend each day, not all at once). Now you can make a "Lunch Money" expense that'll get replenished each month, but it's only been around for a couple weeks and I think I set it up wrong.

They still have goals, which are effectively digital envelopes. But if you use other budgeting tools it's somewhat redundant.

Deposits happen quickly, typically within 24 hours of sending the money from my primary checking account (I set up Simple to try and bring some more financial discipline to my life, not to be my sole account).

They don't offer any better API access than anyone else. The joint accounts are neat (3 accounts, one for each person and one shared). But only works for US citizens, my fiancee will have her green card but not qualify until they change that policy or she becomes a citizen (late next decade). Instant transfers between other Simple account holders, which is nice if you have other people you know who use it but the same is true for most banks (near instant intrabank transfers).

Responsive customer service. I've had maybe 3 or 4 issues or questions over the years, and I've always gotten a response (conducted over email) within 24 hours, probably faster but I only check my home email a couple times a day.

Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by throwaway080383 on Monday August 13, 2018 @03:07PM (#17752700)
FWIW, Bank of America is partnered with Zelle. This is how I pay my rent each month.
Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by techsupporter on Monday August 13, 2018 @03:24PM (#17752857)
Zelle is one of those things that is great but I apparently live in the corner case of everything...

For instance, I have accounts at three different credit unions but I only have one mobile phone number (and Zelle insists on having that phone number). So far as I can tell, I can't register with Zelle at all three credit unions, only one. And leaving the first and signing up at the second requires manual intervention.

Also, I apparently can't use Zelle to transfer money to myself. (This seems to be a limitation of all person-to-person systems, where I can't be the owner of the source and destination accounts.) So, right now, the fastest way for me to move money between two credit union accounts is to go stand at an ATM, withdraw cash with one card, and deposit it with another.

Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by jdhn on Monday August 13, 2018 @02:13PM (#17752269)
A quality mobile app. So many smaller banks/credit unions have terrible desktop websites, and I guarantee that the mobile experience is just as bad, if not worse.
Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by umvi on Monday August 13, 2018 @02:17PM (#17752292)
Also sane password requirements. Every single bank I've ever created an account with has had asinine password requirements: 8-12 characters, no special characters, at least one lowercase/capital/number, etc.
Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by jachee on Monday August 13, 2018 @02:20PM (#17752315)
A notable exception, imho: AlaskaUSA FCU. Their iOS app is fantastic.

I've been able to continue banking with them, even though I've been 3-4 timezones away for the last 5 years, exclusively through their app.

Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by burkemw3 on Monday August 13, 2018 @02:54PM (#17752596)
- Login with (username/email, password, U2F)

- mobile app check deposit

I like many of rgersten's features too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17752320

Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by arminiusreturns on Monday August 13, 2018 @09:12PM (#17754906)
First, the return of the wall between the gambling (investing) side and traditional side Ala glass steagal. Second, enforcement of higher fractional reserve requirements (last I heard it's not even 10 percent anymore). Third, and most controversial, is a return of money making powers back to Congress and away from the unconstitutional Aldrich bill in disguise. Fourth, a reduction in abusing the imf to financially hold countries hostage for their wealth.

Fifth, bankers in jail that have broken the law, and revocation of charter for repeat egregious offenders.

Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by newman8r on Monday August 13, 2018 @02:08PM (#17752217)
Cryptocurrency support would be nice. I understand why that's not going to happen, but if a local bank supported crypto, I might be tempted to open an account.
Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by jstandard on Monday August 13, 2018 @02:18PM (#17752301)
I've often heard that problems with banks and private , centralized control of wealth is one of the fundamental reasons for cryptocurrency.

I'm genuinely curious, what cryptocurrency related services would you want a bank to provide? And, related, what do you expect or hope to be using that cryptocurrency for?

Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by newman8r on Monday August 13, 2018 @02:36PM (#17752448)
It would be nice if I could buy cryptocurrency with my account funds, and for it to be protected/insured while it was in the bank's wallet. The ability to transfer in and out, etc. The ability to make debits against a cryptocurrency balance, etc.

I use robinhood at the moment. If robinhood was able to act more like a bank, and supported transferring cryptocurrency in and out, then it would basically be what I was looking for.

In the past I've just used coinbase/poloniex, and I just transfer to my wallets. I currently use bitcoin to buy domains on namecheap, and I use purse.io to buy stuff from amazon - but I can see myself using it for a lot more in the future.

There may not be a lot of demand for it, but like I said, if local banks started offering these services it would get my attention.

Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by jstandard on Monday August 13, 2018 @05:12PM (#17753673)
It sounds like all the same protections and uses you get with USD. I get the impression Coinbase may be moving in that direction if they haven't already.

What advantages over USD are there for using bitcoin to buy domains or items from amazon?

Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by newman8r on Monday August 13, 2018 @05:44PM (#17753860)
Not sure if there's any specific advantages, but I still prefer to use bitcoin when I can - just feels good. It's nice to be able to buy stuff from amazon without an amazon account though, although that has more to do with purse.io than bitcoin.
Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by karambahh on Monday August 13, 2018 @02:14PM (#17752273)
In Europe, Revolut do support crypto

I guess N26 already does it or will soon as they and Revolut copy each other on features as fast as possible (to such minute details as the card design itself)

Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by Foivos on Monday August 13, 2018 @03:20PM (#17752826)
As far as I know, revolut does not offer full support for cryptocurrencies. When you buy a cryptocurrency from revolut, you get an IOU. In other words, you can use revolut to invest in a cryptocurrency, but you can not actually use the cryptocurrency you have in your wallet to buy something.

Also, the exchange rate is a tiny bit worse than the major exchanges. The real service revolut offers here is an incredibly easy way to invest in cryptocurrencies, for people who do not want to deal with the friction of getting real cryptos.

Re:Starting your own bank is laborious but profitable (2009) by newman8r on Monday August 13, 2018 @02:44PM (#17752520)
I'm signing up for Revolut - they're offering a beta program in the United States, looks interesting.