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Re:US companies giving in to pressure from China by mobmobmob on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @02:09PM (#17709013)
These US corporate elites are selling out US and the rest of the democratic free world in order to meet shareholder's expectations (and of course, MONEY!). And giving into a dictatorship and giving that dictatorship jobs, money, capital, knowledge, and power. That dictatorship now has imprisoned close to 1 million people in Xinjiang.

Shame on you, Sundar Pichai. At least when Google was lead by Erich Schmidt, Google pulled out of China, and didn't bend to the whims of Chinese government.

Shame on you, Tim Cook. Apple has 4.8 million jobs in China, more than double the jobs in US. https://247wallst.com/jobs/2017/03/17/apple-supports-4-8-mil... . Shame on you for not bringing jobs back when news broke out that Foxconn has created a slave labor like working condition.

Shame on you, Mark Zuckerberg, for continuing to appease the dictator in China, so that Facebook may gain a foothold there.

Shame on you, Satya Nadella, for continuing to supply censored search results in Bing. and for not taking a stand against censorship. But I guess the microsoft borgship has a lot in common with China.

Shame on you, Jeff Bezos. You become the richest man on earth, by allowing pirated, stolen, IP infriged goods from China to be sold on your platform without care, destroying small US businesses. You also partnered with Foxconn for Amazon Echo, tablet, and other hardwares. Amazon is a showcase for trade imbalance. disgusting.

Re:US companies giving in to pressure from China by excalibur on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @02:18PM (#17709106)
> user: mobmobmob > created: 17 minutes ago
Re:US companies giving in to pressure from China by xeromal on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @02:20PM (#17709127)
Is that why the user is green? I've always wondered?
Re:US companies giving in to pressure from China by kingbirdy on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @02:24PM (#17709174)
Yes, any account less than two weeks old will have a green name
Re:US companies giving in to pressure from China by ndiscussion on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @02:23PM (#17709154)
Yes it is, but what does that have to do with the nature of the comment?
Re:US companies giving in to pressure from China by jasonlotito on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @02:32PM (#17709263)
Considering the blatant lies and misinformation being spread in the comment, the fact that it's a fresh, new account makes it suspect.

Couple the two together makes it for a comment that doesn't honestly want to drive good conversation.

Re:US companies giving in to pressure from China by excalibur on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @03:06PM (#17709574)
It was leading the discussion in a decidedly political direction, which was why I only responded with an observation about the community experience of the account.

It's not even that he's lying or citing bad data. It's the conclusions he's drawing from it that I find suspect. He seems to be closely mirroring the talking points of a certain controversial public figure. A figure who only seems to be bothered by the wholesale corporate exploitation of the working class when it benefits a foreign country.

Re:US companies giving in to pressure from China by 394549 on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @02:36PM (#17709305)
> Considering the blatant lies and misinformation being spread in the comment, the fact that it's a fresh, new account makes it suspect.

What blatant lies? Everything there looks true, except maybe the employment figures (the US figure apparently includes all people working in the "the iOS ecosystem", which seems totally bogus to me), but that's actually being generous to Apple.

Edit: Just to quickly fact check the other stuff:

> That dictatorship now has imprisoned close to 1 million people in Xinjiang.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/former-inm...

> Shame on you, Sundar Pichai. At least when Google was lead by Erich Schmidt, Google pulled out of China, and didn't bend to the whims of Chinese government.

Google stops cooperating with Chinese censorship in 2010: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2010/jan/12/google-ch...

Censored Google being developed in 2018: https://theintercept.com/2018/08/01/google-china-search-engi...

> Shame on you, Mark Zuckerberg, for continuing to appease the dictator in China, so that Facebook may gain a foothold there.

Zuckerberg shamelessly sucking up to Xi/CCP: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1658272/zuckerberg-h...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/china-s-president-...

> Shame on you, Satya Nadella, for continuing to supply censored search results in Bing. and for not taking a stand against censorship.

Bing censoring Chinese search results: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/feb/11/bing-cens...

> Shame on you, Jeff Bezos. You become the richest man on earth, by allowing pirated, stolen, IP infriged goods from China to be sold on your platform without care

Amazon's counterfeit problem: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/04/amazo...

Re:US companies giving in to pressure from China by maxwell on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @02:52PM (#17709446)
Thank you for checking facts and sharing citations.
Re:US companies giving in to pressure from China by Leary on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @02:46PM (#17709393)
The US was not engaged with China prior to 1971, how did that work out for the United States and for China? Over the long-term, engagement with China has led to more personal freedom for the Chinese.

Trade with China has helped lift hundreds of millions of people out of poverty, while helping with the prosperity of the United States. True the corporations are reaping most of the benefits, but that's natural under a free market. We need reforms here in America to broaden the benefits of trade to all workers. Outsourcing to Asian countries existed prior to China's rise in the supply chain. Most of the stuff that is "Made in China" have major components that come from America's allies such as Japan, Korea, and Taiwan.

Google is in a position to offer a superior search product to China. We should see this as an opportunity to advance freedom.

Re:US companies giving in to pressure from China by maxwell on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @02:50PM (#17709429)
Are you seriously suggesting that a censored search engine is "an opportunity to advance freedom"?
Re:US companies giving in to pressure from China by Leary on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @02:53PM (#17709458)
Yes. The choice before Google is whether to enter the Chinese market. Staying out of China may make some people feel morally satisfied, but will not give Chinese people more information. Rather Google should be using its influence to challenge censorship from the inside after it reenters the Chinese market.
Re:US companies giving in to pressure from China by 394549 on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @03:05PM (#17709572)
> Yes. The choice before Google is whether to enter the Chinese market. Staying out of China may make some people feel morally satisfied, but will not give Chinese people more information.

Entering the Chinese market also lends prestige to the censoring regime (e.g. "all the companies of the world submit to our demands"), and also makes those demands seem more reasonable.

> Rather Google should be using its influence to challenge censorship from the inside after it reenters the Chinese market.

The CCP doesn't care at all about Google's challenges to it. Either Google complies totally, or it's out. The CCP doesn't need Google, and they probably would rather people use Baidu anyway.

Re:US companies giving in to pressure from China by Kalium on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @02:55PM (#17709482)
How do you think it might compare to no search engine at all? Or one controlled completely by the Communist Party?

The ideal option that we'd all love to see, of the Chinese people given full and free access to uncensored and unmonitored information, is unlikely to be on offer any time soon. Refusing to meet the Communist Party's demands has only meant that control of information by the Party goes unchallenged in any way. Search is not something so unique and powerful that only specially smart Westerners can do it. As a result, holding out for this ideal is equivalent to actively advocating for the status quo.

That's the question at hand. Do we prefer posturing in the form of a moral stand that hurts people and strengthens the Communist Party or do we accept that other options might be worth considering?

Re:US companies giving in to pressure from China by ngcc_hk on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @07:09PM (#17711756)
But it is also controlled by communist. A Catholic Church by name or even sanctioned by the pope is not a real church. It just showed how powerful the communist is.

Pleasing Soviet Union never help.

Re:US companies giving in to pressure from China by mistermann on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @05:21PM (#17710924)
Many good things for most parties have come out of China's greater involvement in the world economy, this much is true.

However, there are also several plausible, non-trivial concerns that seem like they should be included in a comprehensive conversation, but are often left out. Mobmobmob mentioned a few specific ones, do you have an opinion on the severity of the risks he mentioned?