News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Color or Fruit? The Unlikely Etymology of “Orange” by senthil_rajasek on Friday July 27, 2018 @03:24PM (#17628529)
"possibly derived from an even older Dravidian (another ancient language spoken in what is now southern India) root, naru, meaning fragrant. "

The Dravidian language referred here is Tamil. The fruit in the citrus family is called Narthangai. The unripe fruit makes a sour delicious pickle.

It's such a joy to hear a Tamil word used everyday around the globe.

Re:Color or Fruit? The Unlikely Etymology of “Orange” by lgessler on Friday July 27, 2018 @06:00PM (#17629779)
> The Dravidian language referred here is Tamil.

The "even older Dravidian [language]" referred to in the article is not exactly Tamil. The oldest written evidence we have for Old Tamil[1] dates to the 3rd century BC[2]. But we're told that this word is in Sanskrit's vocabulary, which was already developed well before then. (Some people date the Vedas to the 15th century BC.)

That means it probably didn't come from Tamil, and instead came from some other, older Dravidian language. That might be Proto-Dravidian, the common ancestor of all Dravidian languages (Tamil, Malayalam, Kannada, Telugu, etc.), or some other ancient Dravidian language that we don't have a record of.

(That seems likely, because that's generally how other Dravidian words in Sanskrit are thought to have gotten there: Skt. फल (phala) 'fruit' is thought to have been borrowed from Proto-Dravidian *palam, which has descended into Tamil பழம் (paḻam), Malayalam പഴം (paḻaṃ), etc.)

Some English words actually are directly from Tamil, though. Curry[3] and mango[4] are both directly from Tamil.

[1]: Old Tamil is actually quite different from Modern Tamil, but let's not get into that

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Tamil_language

[3]: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/curry#Etymology_1

[4]: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mango#Etymology

Re:Color or Fruit? The Unlikely Etymology of “Orange” by dzhshnacct on Friday July 27, 2018 @11:41PM (#17631386)
only westerners date vedas to 15 century BC to prop up the fantasy of europeans being aryans and support the aryan invasion theory

indians date it quite securely via astronomical observations in the texts of dhruva the pole star to 3000 BC or 5kya

dhruva was thuban or alpha draconis of draco or the indian constellation sisumara whale dolphin

there were no pole stars from about 2300 BC to 1500 AD but the knowledge of the previous one was preserved in india

the rig veda and some other vedas even predate the dhruva observation but have not been securely dated

Re:Color or Fruit? The Unlikely Etymology of “Orange” by iamshs on Saturday July 28, 2018 @03:45AM (#17632111)
Are you using that absolutely non-credible David Frawley’s non peer reviewed assertions regarding the astronomical dating of Vedas?

Please post a credible source for whole of your post.

Re:Color or Fruit? The Unlikely Etymology of “Orange” by dzhshnacct on Saturday July 28, 2018 @03:58AM (#17632152)
R N Iyengar

http://www.academia.edu/7193503/Dhruva-the-Ancient-Vedic-Hin...

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/RN_Iyengar

personally dont care about peer review status since we know the reasons westerners reject this information has nothing to do with science but self interest

but you might be interested to know it was first proposed by a european named jacobi before europeans got the desire to be aryan leading to the world war and destruction

video lecture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R2lXuUMdoo

another person same conclusion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfW4iLBgxg8

Re:Color or Fruit? The Unlikely Etymology of “Orange” by iamshs on Saturday July 28, 2018 @04:57AM (#17632301)
I will wait for an article published in a journal which at least has an Impact Factor. Cannot even find impact factor for the journal you linked to. And your central theme is invalidating western views while proving Indian supremacy, I will not lend any credence to your views and assertions.
Re:Color or Fruit? The Unlikely Etymology of “Orange” by dzhshnacct on Saturday July 28, 2018 @05:26AM (#17632385)
impact factor science is why the west will decline and fall

and actual science will head back east to india and maybe china if they can get their act together

Re:Color or Fruit? The Unlikely Etymology of “Orange” by ar-jan on Saturday July 28, 2018 @07:48AM (#17632744)
Fantasy? Then how come genetics is now starting to confirm steppe ancestry in Indians?
Re:Color or Fruit? The Unlikely Etymology of “Orange” by dzhshnacct on Saturday July 28, 2018 @08:12AM (#17632824)
the recent harvard preprint only had evidence for steppe women settling with indus men

this was not noted in the paper itself but only on twitter

you can imagine the ridiculousness of claims that women drove out dravidians and then installed a patriarchy

i hope they do publish cause it would mark the low point of western science future historians can point to as the beginning of the fall

in any case they have no evidence of steppe languages only inferences and we have strong evidence of sanskrit in india 3000 BC well before the fake aryan invasion claims of 1500 BC

Re:Color or Fruit? The Unlikely Etymology of “Orange” by raz32dust on Saturday July 28, 2018 @12:11AM (#17631477)
I think it is called an older Dravidian language, and not Tamil because the older Dravidian language cannot be called Tamil. It is vastly different from the Tamil that is spoken today. Calling a language the "oldest" is usually just veiled attempts at asserting racial/cultural superiority that does not really exist. Oscar Tay has a great answer on Quora explaining this, and I cannot state it any better: https://www.quora.com/Is-Tamil-the-oldest-living-language-in...
Re:Color or Fruit? The Unlikely Etymology of “Orange” by ap3 on Friday July 27, 2018 @03:56PM (#17628803)
Read all the way through, didn’t know it would end up at a Tamil word as the origin of naranja
Re:Color or Fruit? The Unlikely Etymology of “Orange” by iamshs on Friday July 27, 2018 @11:15PM (#17631316)
I am wondering why didn't the word percolate to Punjabi language where we call the colour as "santri" and the fruit is called "santra". Hindi has the same word for it, I think.
Re:Color or Fruit? The Unlikely Etymology of “Orange” by msravi on Friday July 27, 2018 @11:32PM (#17631358)
Or to Kannada, where the fruit is called "kittaLe", despite also being classified a Dravidian language. Kannada and Telugu in general seem to have too many differences from Tamil and Malayalam to be lumped into a common bucket.

The color has always been referred to as "kesari" in Kannada, and translates to saffron.

Re:Color or Fruit? The Unlikely Etymology of “Orange” by dzhshnacct on Friday July 27, 2018 @11:31PM (#17631356)
the word for rice also comes from tamil arici and not from the chinese mi

unexpectedly even the japanese use a form of the tamil word coupled with the chinese word uruchi mai leading to theories of dravidian japanese linkages or atleast contact and trade

but the debate of whether the tamil word itself comes from sanskrit vrihi is not settled there is the possibility of agriculture spreading to north india from south india and lanka starting 17.5kya and then on to the fertile crescent as well contrary to popular beliefs

http://indiafacts.org/how-old-is-indian-agriculture/

Re:Color or Fruit? The Unlikely Etymology of “Orange” by iamshs on Saturday July 28, 2018 @03:26AM (#17632065)
Why are linking to a site that is known to spread falsehoods?
Re:Color or Fruit? The Unlikely Etymology of “Orange” by dzhshnacct on Saturday July 28, 2018 @03:38AM (#17632098)
yes the site is anathema to indian marxists

please argue on merits of the content of the article

if you think there is something false please point to the specifics

Re:Color or Fruit? The Unlikely Etymology of “Orange” by iamshs on Saturday July 28, 2018 @04:24AM (#17632215)
Indian marxist? No wonder you belong and advocate views of Hindu nationalist party of India, BJP. Pathetic diss.

Two Points regarding the article:- 1. Author says agriculture first started in Sri Lanka, and then uses that to say India was the country where agriculture started. Completely ignoring the fact that Sri Lanka is not in India.

2. Author says, "India cannot now be ruled out as the home of the grape, in which case, we would have a Neolithic-era spread of a crop from India to the FC and beyond."

His whole assertion is this paper [A], where all the paper authors say is that grape could have been present in India before the presently accepted timeline, they don't say anything about India being home of the grape or even if grape spread out from India. IndiaFacts did quite a reach there just for proving supremacy of India.

So yeah again, a better site for your ignorant BS. It is better to not bring your level of discourse to this site.

[A] - http://www.currentscience.ac.in/Downloads/article_id_097_04_...

Re:Color or Fruit? The Unlikely Etymology of “Orange” by dzhshnacct on Saturday July 28, 2018 @04:35AM (#17632242)
17.5kya lanka was part of the indian landmass according to the article due to sea level differences

rest of your nit picking i will ignore since you seem to have accepted and not disputed the main claim of lankan agri well before the fertile crescent

Re:Color or Fruit? The Unlikely Etymology of “Orange” by iamshs on Saturday July 28, 2018 @05:02AM (#17632315)
>17.5kya lanka was part of the indian landmass according to the article due to sea level differences

Any other independent source for it?

Re:Color or Fruit? The Unlikely Etymology of “Orange” by dang on Sunday July 29, 2018 @07:16PM (#17640915)
Can you please not use HN for ideological and nationalistic argument? This is definitely not what the site is for, and you've done it a lot already.