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Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by SlowRobotAhead on Monday July 23, 2018 @05:41PM (#17596260)
I kinda wish we could pump those numbers up, esp for children on the internet. Thinking back to the 80s and 90s growing up, it sure seems like people were happier. But what do I know!?
Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by simmons on Monday July 23, 2018 @05:54PM (#17596350)
I don't know if people or specifically children were happier in the 80s/90s, but after spending a couple of weeks with my 10-year-old niece, I'm completely floored at how she tries to fill every waking minute passively consuming content such as YouTube. It wouldn't be so bad if children were using the Internet to do something constructive or educational.

Of course, plenty of people from my generation spent their childhoods in front of the TV, but perhaps that was more easily regulated. (My parents, at least, wouldn't let me watch TV endlessly.)

Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by superbaconman on Monday July 23, 2018 @06:06PM (#17596402)
I just realized that growing up computers were basically only for research and creating content. Now that bandwidth is so cheap computers are only for consumption.
Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by majewsky on Monday July 23, 2018 @06:11PM (#17596432)
Don't know when you grew up, but computer games were already a thing before the internet became widely available.

(Of course, a video game is vastly more engaging and interactive than a random YouTube video.)

Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by gurkendoktor on Monday July 23, 2018 @07:07PM (#17596783)
There's nothing inherently wrong with consumption, and it overlaps with doing research. You could be watching educational videos or deeply philosophical discussions on YouTube all day. I don't even mind pure consumption devices like my Kindle or my iPad because there's so much great content around.
Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by slededit on Monday July 23, 2018 @06:34PM (#17596575)
"computers" as in traditional PCs are regaining their creator role. Microsoft even calls their windows update "Creator Edition". Phones and tablets are almost pure consumption devices with a few exceptions.
Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by readhn on Monday July 23, 2018 @06:12PM (#17596449)
They dont call us "consumers" for nothing....

soon they'll take away the keyboards and other ways/inputs to mess with the "insides" of a computer ... and all you'll have is a touch screen to choose this or that.. while consuming...actually thats happening already with iPad etc..

Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by readhn on Monday July 23, 2018 @06:26PM (#17596531)
Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by jMyles on Monday July 23, 2018 @06:45PM (#17596640)
> I'm completely floored at how she tries to fill every waking minute passively consuming content such as YouTube.

...is that so bad? She has an incredible world of content at her fingertips; what's the virtue in refraining from involving herself in it?

Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by novia on Monday July 23, 2018 @07:12PM (#17596816)
I'm not the OP, but having also watched a ten year old consume YouTube videos... they tend to stay far far away from anything remotely educational.

For example, this is the kind of thing that the particular kid I know watches: https://youtu.be/5O66ssNpg_A

22 million views. So basically nothing is gained from watching these sorts of videos. But what's lost? Maybe the opportunity to connect with family members?

Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by Rjevski on Monday July 23, 2018 @07:23PM (#17596868)
Define educational.

Watching stupid Call of Duty videos as a teenager is what allowed me to learn English (I am not a native English speaker) and I now owe my entire career to that.

On the other hand, proper “educational” stuff has yet to make me a penny.

Just because it doesn’t look “educational” (or should I say boring) to you doesn’t mean the kid isn’t learning stuff by watching (or listening to) the video. Chances are, those people are doing real-life stuff that is never taught in school and they would otherwise try to figure it out by themselves via trial and error.

Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by yesiamyourdad on Monday July 23, 2018 @07:33PM (#17596917)
That's pretty funny. When I was in college I had a roommate from Colombia and mentioned that I'd like to learn some Spanish. He enthusiastically recommended watching the Spanish language soaps on Telemundo, he told me watching American soaps is how he learned most of his English.
Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by novia on Monday July 23, 2018 @07:26PM (#17596885)
I edited my comment and added a link to a typical video. The child watching this is already fluent in English.
Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by Rjevski on Monday July 23, 2018 @07:31PM (#17596910)
That video is stupid but it is worse than reality TV shows or cartoons? It’s entertainment. Doesn’t always have to have a further purpose beyond passing time and satisfying curiosity.

My comment about English was just an example, when completely stupid (by my own admission) videos still somehow still managed to contribute to my life and career.

Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by LyndsySimon on Monday July 23, 2018 @08:18PM (#17597125)
Is it really substantively different from “imaginative play”?

My own kids watch similar stuff quite a bit, and while I don’t enjoy watching it with them, they enjoy it and talk about it with their friends. They even make their own (private) videos for fun.

Ask any kid age six to twelve or so these days what they want to be, and most will reply “I want to be a YouTuber!”

Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by gurkendoktor on Monday July 23, 2018 @07:01PM (#17596749)
There are studies about the benefits of boredom:

https://www.melbournechildpsychology.com.au/blog/the-benefit...

I think there's plenty of "cultural evidence" for this too: the subreddit for wacky revelations is called /r/showerthoughts, and the shower is the last place where we have no screens or books around us.

Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by magic_beans on Monday July 23, 2018 @07:52PM (#17596999)
But you’re not bored in the shower. You are doing a task. The most creative thoughts don’t come when you are bored, but when you are doing something routine or low effort.

Sitting on the couch staring at a wall won’t have the same effect, but doing housework will.

Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by simmons on Monday July 23, 2018 @07:55PM (#17597016)
Having grown up in a small town in the 80's where it was hard to get access to all the media I might have wanted, I can really appreciate how great it is that kids today have access to this incredible world of content! And there's a lot of fun and engaging ways that kids use modern technology, whether it's playing Minecraft or keeping up with friends and family.

I'm mostly concerned about the specific category of content that tries to be as addictive as possible to young minds. Yes, people in the 80's tried to make content as addictive as possible, but people today are so much more skilled at it.

Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by soneil on Monday July 23, 2018 @06:09PM (#17596421)
I think it's over-simplifying the issue to blame children for that.

I mean, when I was 12 we built a little fort in the woods. My parents didn't mind letting us disappear with hammer, nails, saw and sandwiches for the weekend, as long as they knew we weren't going alone.

Now there's places where the parent can get in trouble just for letting their kid walk to school. So the kids end up building their fort in minecraft instead of the woods, but I don't think the kids can take 100% of the blame for it.

Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by adamweld on Monday July 23, 2018 @06:23PM (#17596510)
The children shouldn't take any of the blame - that falls on the parents and society that have allowed things to come to this point.

We are faced with technology that is designed to be as addictive as possible, and unleashing it on the developing brains of our children without limits. Personally I think it's absolutely terrifying the effects that we'll be seeing down the road from this.

Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by AgentOrange1234 on Monday July 23, 2018 @08:37PM (#17597222)
Who is unleashing this on kids without limits? It’s quite easy to limit screen time. (Not talking about any parental controls stuff, just “turn that off.”)
Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by thatswrong0 on Monday July 23, 2018 @05:52PM (#17596336)
I feel like this is the same thing they said about tv, before that radio, before that..
Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by NeedMoreTea on Monday July 23, 2018 @06:11PM (#17596436)
I don't remember it ever being said about radio. TV certainly, but mainly it became a common theme after the arrival of Sky in UK. Now the kids had 13 channels of shit on the TV to choose from, and even dedicated channels for effortless excess consumption.

For the early part of our kid's lives there was only an hour or two of kids TV a day - between end of school and around 5:30pm in time for the evening news. Limiting consumption was far easier.

Course there'd still be opportunity to watch soaps etc with parents

Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by holygrail111 on Monday July 23, 2018 @06:53PM (#17596695)
Nice pink floyd reference, see my above post about the mexicans and the africans, too.
Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by soared on Monday July 23, 2018 @06:16PM (#17596472)
Are you 70 years old? Radio was at the same stage as the internet in the 50s and 60s.
Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by NeedMoreTea on Monday July 23, 2018 @06:22PM (#17596505)
Grew up with kids TV in the 70s and 80s thanks :p

I have never once heard anyone criticise radio consumption that I can remember. Walkmans in the 80s, yes; games, yes; TV, definitely as mentioned. All of those have cropped up in the news more than a few times while they were topical.

Maybe UK radio got a different reaction to the US?

Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by jdietrich on Monday July 23, 2018 @07:15PM (#17596832)
>I have never once heard anyone criticise radio consumption that I can remember.

You're far too young to remember. There were two distinct moral panics about radio; the first in the 1930s when radio first became popular in the home, and the second in the early 1960s when transistorisation allowed teenagers to have radios of their own.

Until 1967, the BBC did not have a pop music station. Until 1973, commercial radio was illegal. The pirates who filled the demand for pop radio in the interim were hugely controversial. A great many column inches were spent fretting over the corrupting influence of foreign broadcasters, beaming salacious rock and roll music into the bedrooms of British children.

Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by NeedMoreTea on Monday July 23, 2018 @08:05PM (#17597061)
Fair enough.

Of course I also remember the huge moral panic over us all going to hell for playing rock records backwards for satanistic messages. We all tried, and failed, to find one of course after hearing of this. :)

I'm rather surprised about the 1930s - early British radio was so worthy and busy and educating the populace. I'm surprised there was much scope left for panic.

Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by soared on Monday July 23, 2018 @06:35PM (#17596587)
That’s because it was normalized in the 70s and 80s. When it was still new people moaned about overconsumption, just like the internet.
Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by derekp7 on Monday July 23, 2018 @06:31PM (#17596564)
Back in the 60's and 70's, it was mostly criticism of radio stations that played rock music.
Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by WillPostForFood on Monday July 23, 2018 @06:00PM (#17596376)
Right, could be a repeating pattern, but could also be a downward slope.
Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by pasquinelli on Monday July 23, 2018 @06:23PM (#17596511)
or just shifting around how people zonk out.
Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by radicalbyte on Monday July 23, 2018 @06:12PM (#17596446)
The quality of content on TV is way better than YouTube. Thankfully my kids really like the learning series on Netflix (Umizoomi, True etc) instead of the horrible 'daddy finger' to cheap animation of babies which qualifies as 'child content' on YouTube.
Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by mindcrime on Monday July 23, 2018 @06:43PM (#17596632)
The quality of content on TV is way better than YouTube.

IF you're talking only about children-specific stuff, then maybe so. But otherwise I totally disagree. There is SO much amazing content on Youtube (especially educational content); where nothing on TV can come close to match it. Pick a subject you want to learn, and there are hours and hours of content, a not insignificant amount from top tier universities, covering same.

Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by radicalbyte on Tuesday July 24, 2018 @04:40AM (#17599150)
Yes, I'm talking about content for children; in my case children who cannot read/write. YouTube is a horrible wasteland of mind destroying insanity for that age group. I'm replying to a comment talking about the experience for kids.

I agree about YouTube for adults and older children; there is an amazing amount of top quality content there for people who are capable of searching for it :-)

Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by radicalbyte on Tuesday July 24, 2018 @04:42AM (#17599155)
To the downvoter(s): I assume that you don't have young children. If you want to get an idea of how bad it is, search for "baby daddy finger" and then only follow the brightly colored links featuring babies or recognizable cartoon characters. Randomly subscribe to channels you see. Then you get the full < 6-7 year-old experience of YouTube.
Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by scarface74 on Monday July 23, 2018 @06:12PM (#17596453)
My son has been able to keep in touch with friends and play video games with them online that he hasn’t seen in person in years.

They live in the same metro area but being an hour and half away in traffic they might as well be in different parts of the country.

Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by SlowRobotAhead on Tuesday July 24, 2018 @11:13AM (#17601725)
Do you consider those to be just as meaningful relationships with the people he would otherwise have to meet in going out with in person?

Keeping in touch with people is great, but I think there is value in children learning the lesson that the people you hang out with today might not be your forever friends. To lesson most people don’t learn to well after high school would’ve been beneficial to know earlier.

Just posing the question. I don’t know your kid. Nor our specific kids but I was talking about my post. Of course her benefits and features, at the cost of possibly losing the ability to deal with people in the real world. Maybe.

Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by scarface74 on Tuesday July 24, 2018 @11:52AM (#17602160)
The male friends that I grew away from wasn’t because of distance, it was because our interest and lifestyle changed but I’ve actively kept in touch with a few even while we have lived in different parts of the country since 1997. We see each other maybe once a year since we are both from the same hometown and go back to visit relatives.

What benefit do you get from seeing people in person? When I see my friends in person we talk, play cards, and play video games. We may go out and eat/drink but everything else we can do online. I don’t need to physically see other men to keep a friendship with them.

I did specifically call out my male friends. I purposefully distanced myself from my (platanic) female friends after getting married except for the ones where I was friends with the couple because having friends of the opposite sex as a married man just brings in too many complications.

Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by SlowRobotAhead on Tuesday July 24, 2018 @11:59AM (#17602231)
>What benefit do you get from seeing people in person?

Yea, IDK, social ques maybe? Are you really arguing that there is no difference talking to friends in person vs on the internet or phone?

The short version is, your digital friends, aren't real people. You can hang up on them, or not answer when you don't feel like. The second you put your controller or phone down, they disappear and wait to be pulled back into your existence. Real people you can't manage like that, so you have to use different methods of interaction.

Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by scarface74 on Tuesday July 24, 2018 @12:21PM (#17602471)
Yes I’m arguing exactly that. One of my best friends I’ve had since 1992 I talk to all of the time to the point when we do see each other in person we really don’t have anything new to talk about.

I don’t have any friends that I don’t want to talk too to the point I would hang up on them. The friends I talk to in person - I can just as easily not hang out with them if I don’t feel like seeing them either.

I have a group of five friends that I use to work with and we’ve all gone our separate ways as far as jobs, we mostly talk on Slack but we do go out of our way to meet for lunch at least once s month. Honestly, at this point in my life, it takes an effort to keep friends because I know I should. I’d much rather spend my limited free time with my wife or working out in my home gym.

Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by keithnz on Monday July 23, 2018 @06:18PM (#17596482)
I'm not sure whether people were happier or not, perhaps some people were happier because they lived in ignorance of what was happening around them... I know for me that is probablly true. I grew up in the 70s / 80s, in my family / community bubble I was unaware of bad things. Only later through the internet and people telling their stories on the internet that I realized my experience of life being pretty good for everyone I knew was completely wrong and quite a few people were having a miserable time... but I thought they were relatively happy.
Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by azernik on Monday July 23, 2018 @06:26PM (#17596528)
Judging by the article, this number is only going to go down; the numbers are in the 2-3% range for everyone under 50, and are made up by a whopping 34% offline in the over-65 age bracket.

I would also be strongly suspicious of childhood nostalgia were I in your shoes.

Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by gurkendoktor on Monday July 23, 2018 @07:16PM (#17596840)
There are at least some signs that our childhood nostalgia is not misplaced:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/suicide-youth-teens-whats-behin...

(I don't live in the US, but I'm afraid this trend will arrive here soon enough.)

Re:11% of Americans don’t use the internet by lainga on Monday July 23, 2018 @05:44PM (#17596288)
Laughs in Moodle