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Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by claydavisss on Thursday July 19, 2018 @10:32PM (#17572012)
Americans want to be "apart"! Most people in America see high-density living as a negative. Most want a yard and a garage. The country is huge - you can fit three UKs into the state of Texas alone. We have the space, we have the roads, we like our yards.

I have moved our family into progressively rural environments and will continue to do so until the distance to basic necessities is intolerable. In most rural environments there is no meaningful traffic so people aren't that down on being in their vehicles.

Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by didibus on Thursday July 19, 2018 @11:07PM (#17572146)
Have you lived the alternative? It's obvious people are raised to want large houses and large yards, its cultural, but given we'd know the true experience of both would we still feel that way?

I've lived the big city, high density European lifestyle, I lived it in America too, and in Canada, and I've lived the American and Canadian small town life.

They're both nice. The small town life is great if the community is healthy, and there is a town core that is dense of businesses and shops which you can go to and walk around. It gives you access to nature and land in an unprecedented way. And the small population means you get a feel of community and know others, and events can be hosted on peoples properties.

If the town is struggling, its not that great, and can start to feel depressing and isolated.

The european city style is also great, it feels like a buzzing small town, minus the access to land and nature. The sense of community, knowing your neighbors, being proud and invested in your neighborhood. Being physically active. These are all there. Similar to how you can find that in prosperous small towns too.

In the end, I feel the choice between small town and European style cities is personal. If you prefer nature, enjoy quiet downtime, and peace, small town wins. If you prefer urban landscapes, a buzzing vibrant environment, and constant flux of activities and creativity, European cities would win.

That said, I'd be surprised if anyone prefers the American style cities and suburbs. Its like the worst of both worlds. You get a medium sized house, big enough that maintenance is a chore, yet too small to have the space for serious house endeavors. A yard, but too small to have it be a place to enjoy nature. Its not quiet, yet also not buzzing. It lacks creativity and the feeling of community, and everywhere is hard to get too, too far to walk, too crouded to drive.

That's what I think people complain about. I personally hate them with a passion.

Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by bigger_cheese on Friday July 20, 2018 @01:25AM (#17572696)
I'm not sure about Europe and America but where I live (Australia) living in the city is ridiculously expensive (Sydney routinely ranks as one of the highest cost of living cities in the world).

When I was growing up I lived in the suburbs, I hated it so far from everything, very infrequent public transport (lucky to get one bus an hour). Maybe worst of all as a young geek poor internet speed. I was stuck on dial up for years because it was all we had...

I vowed when I left my parent's home I'd live closer to the city. But it is just so expensive (especially rent) there is no way I can justify it. So I suffer through all the long commutes, traffic congestion hell etc.

Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by didibus on Friday July 20, 2018 @02:54AM (#17573009)
I totally understand that. Cities can be crazy expensive, and small towns lack the job market some people need.

I guess I just wonder sometime, what if we designed a city where cars took second place, and high density, public transit, walk-ability, bike-ability, e-bike, car share, etc, was made the priority. Would it make for nicer cities, which are more livable and affordable?

I don't know, maybe not, but it seems as long as Car are still around, we'll never try it out.

EDIT: Generally, dense cities in the European style are like that because they were designed prior to the existence of Cars, and thus Cars have never been able to enter them successfully, too small roads, and weird road networks. Since they were made for walking, they're automatically higher density. But, those cities were also designed before public transit, e-bike, bikes, scooters, package delivery, car share, etc. So I feel like we could do much better then those today.

Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by linkregister on Friday July 20, 2018 @01:41AM (#17572750)
Why not move to a smaller city that is more affordable? Brisbane has software jobs and a lower cost of living.

Condos in Perth near the CBD are surprisingly very affordable, though there are fewer good jobs.

Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by King-Aaron on Friday July 20, 2018 @02:10AM (#17572865)
Perth has a sickeningly low density of residents within the CBD, and as a result you can get some really good deals on apartments within a stones throw to the city. It's also got a pretty good 'small town' sort of atmosphere compared to other cities.

It's not exactly the most progressive of places, however. But personally I love it.

NB: I'm currently in the position of purchasing land in Perth and you can get some good sub-$200k deals on 350-400 square metre blocks within 20 minutes to the city too if you look around.

Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by dbetteridge on Friday July 20, 2018 @04:47AM (#17573423)
Existing house or empty lot?

I'm looking in the near future so would be keen to know where to look.

Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by King-Aaron on Friday July 20, 2018 @10:10PM (#17580370)
I'm looking at empty lots.
Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by dbetteridge on Friday July 20, 2018 @04:44AM (#17573413)
Come work in Perth, if you're handy with web dev and don't mind learning some GIS skills I might be able to get you an interview :)
Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by claydavisss on Thursday July 19, 2018 @11:36PM (#17572238)
Yes, lived in urban environments. When I was young and single I didn't mind density and the resulting loss of personal space. Now that I am older I want as much space between me and my neighbors as possible. Short of a trip to the hospital, I have no plans on sharing a wall with a stranger ever again.
Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by danans on Friday July 20, 2018 @12:06AM (#17572380)
> Most people in America see high-density living as a negative.

The times, and with it many people's preferences, are always changing.

It's wonderful that you have found the place that suits you. Likewise, a growing number of people value higher density living, just as you do low density living.

Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by flaque on Friday July 20, 2018 @12:51AM (#17572565)
That's not true though. 80% of Americans live in an urban areas: https://www.census.gov/geo/reference/ua/uafacts.html
Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by zjaffee on Friday July 20, 2018 @01:42AM (#17572754)
This defines towns with ~1000 people in them with nothing else for 50 miles as an urban area.
Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by adrianN on Friday July 20, 2018 @04:30AM (#17573358)
Then look at the number of people in urbanized areas

> An urbanized area consists of densely developed territory that contains 50,000 or more people.

Still 70% of the US population.

Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by ta1234567890 on Thursday July 19, 2018 @10:39PM (#17572039)
Maybe you mean American corporations and people in power love space and their cars and the money they make off of selling and developing those things?

For example, LA used to have a great train network for public transportation until the automobile industry made sure to tear it down so people would be forced to drive cars.

In SF/BayArea people want zoning to change so there can be more housing/apartment buildings. Who's blocking that from happening? Homeowners who think that would devalue their properties.

Also, doesn't seem like people in NYC value cars or yards that much (at least not over living in NYC).

Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by colechristensen on Thursday July 19, 2018 @10:55PM (#17572106)
"America" doesn't consist of LA, NYC, and SF. There are a lot of people even in those places that don't want density but choose the environment because there are jobs, and there are jobs because so few people are willing to leave. (catch 22)
Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by couchand on Thursday July 19, 2018 @11:02PM (#17572130)
It's true that America isn't only New York City, Los Angeles, and San Francisco, but those three areas do make up over 10% of the population, which is nothing to sneeze at.
Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by BRAlNlAC on Thursday July 19, 2018 @11:18PM (#17572176)
While that is true, LA makes up a big portion of that "over 10%" hardly anyone in LA lives in anything remotely like high-density housing or lives there for much beyond the fantastic weather and job opportunities. Also, you don't do anything to address the parent comments point that plenty of people who live in higher-density areas would prefer to move to somewhere more rural, but can't because of life.
Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by zjaffee on Friday July 20, 2018 @01:49AM (#17572788)
Hundreds of thousands of people live in high density areas of Los Angeles with densities far exceeding San Francisco's most dense areas. Also people live in LA for the same reason they live in other big cities, because it's incredibly diverse and vibrant. Traffic may be bad, but most people aren't in transit for that long anyways since the city is still pretty dense, and you can get everything you need within your neighborhood (where many neighborhoods are totally walkable).
Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by BRAlNlAC on Friday July 20, 2018 @03:16PM (#17578010)
but (hundreds of thousands[living in high density LA]) + (hundereds of thousands [living in high density SF]) + 8 million (living in NYC) =/= 10% * 350 million.

In fact, if we generously estimate that 10 million people live in high density metro areas that don't rely on cars we are looking at less than 3% of the US population. I think that is something to sneeze at.

Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by linkregister on Friday July 20, 2018 @01:45AM (#17572767)
100% of the my friends and family who live in New York would live nowhere else in the country in spite of the extreme costs of living in Manhattan, when they could have equal incomes elsewhere.

I know it's hard for you to believe, but some people like living in high density areas.

Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by BRAlNlAC on Friday July 20, 2018 @03:27PM (#17578119)
I understand that. But at the same time I know plenty of people who live in SF who would love to move to a more rural area, but they or their spouse can't find work in their field outside of metro areas and SF is close to their rural roots. Some people don't like living in high density areas, but find themselves their out of circumstance.
Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by claydavisss on Thursday July 19, 2018 @11:38PM (#17572247)
LA is almost entirely car-focused.

SF only has a population of one million.

Basically the US has NYC and parts of Chicago as emblems of urban density.

Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by lev99 on Friday July 20, 2018 @12:38AM (#17572509)
The US has over 200 zip codes with a population density of 20k/sqmile. While 20k/sqmile isn't an 'emblem of urban density' it does show there are several locations a person that enjoys high density can live in.
Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by sotojuan on Thursday July 19, 2018 @11:43PM (#17572273)
I know it’s because it’s HN, but SF is just not that big of a city to be included with the other two. Maybe include Houston, Philadelphia, or Phoenix. SF isn’t even in the top ten.
Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by ScottBurson on Friday July 20, 2018 @12:06AM (#17572375)
The San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland Combined Statistical Area is estimated at 8.8 million, putting it fifth, after Greater NYC, Greater LA, Greater Chicago, and the Washington DC metro area including Baltimore. [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_statistical_area

Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by claydavisss on Thursday July 19, 2018 @10:53PM (#17572099)
No living in the country is actually not a vast alt-right conspiracy.
Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by maccam94 on Friday July 20, 2018 @02:17AM (#17572890)
Well, not alt right...

De-urbanization was spurred by housing shortages post-WW2 and federal policy seeking to stabilize the housing market. The FHA was created to insure home loans that met a long list of requirements[1], which had biases towards increasing consumption (including cars) and racial segregation. The marketing and growth of suburbia was then promoted by various business interests that would benefit from that increased consumption[2]. The new suburban lifestyle led to the rise of modern conservatism[3]. Most (~85% [3]) of the US lives in metropolitan areas, so rural lifestyles are not typical and it would be vastly less efficient if everyone lived there rather than in cities.

1: https://marketurbanism.com/2017/09/12/financing-suburbia-how...

2: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/...

3: http://americanhistory.oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/97...

Re:How the Car Keeps Americans Apart by fastball on Thursday July 19, 2018 @11:37PM (#17572243)
Did you RTFA?

It's mostly about driving in cities / commuting to work, not driving across America and living in the rural countryside.