News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by bigtones on Monday July 16, 2018 @06:27PM (#17545713)
Interesting to note that the SSD is literally 4 chips permanently soldered on both sides of the motherboard, they don't even bother with an NVMe M2 drive. So you can't upgrade your hard disk to a larger one ever - you have to choose when you buy it.

I guess that contributes to it being the fastest ever hard disk in a laptop: https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/13/2018-macbook-pro-fastes...

Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by trynumber9 on Monday July 16, 2018 @06:39PM (#17545788)
It's possible that may contribute. But even my 1.5 year old NVMe Samsung 960 Pro has write speeds similar to that. It uses a standard form factor so I dropped it into a PCIe adapter and use with my 4 year old Z97 motherboard. Being able to do that makes me appreciate standards.
Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by giancarlostoro on Monday July 16, 2018 @07:16PM (#17545988)
Fastest non PCIE drive I suppose? PCIE SSD drives are usually around that speed.

See this one from the Surface Book 2 which is from 2017:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12167/the-microsoft-surface-b...

2800MB/s sequential read and honestly once I went with PCIE SSD's I can't go back to regular SSD's only for secondary storage. Sad they soldered it on though. Good luck fixing that laptop when that drive fails...

Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by dogma1138 on Monday July 16, 2018 @07:22PM (#17546028)
It’s still PCIe just soldered on board.
Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by giancarlostoro on Monday July 16, 2018 @07:46PM (#17546139)
Point being that benchmark is a little misleading claiming to be the fastest "hard drive" when it's just standard PCIE speeds.
Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by watersb on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @12:02AM (#17547216)
I find that benchmark result to be naive at best.

Most of the performance gains, relative to other current PCIe SSDs, are likely due to the APFS file system stack, tuned with their specific hardware.

As they say, a performance win is a win, but the hyper-focus on Apple hardware (and consequent lack of understanding of the software stack) is misleading.

Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by MBCook on Monday July 16, 2018 @06:49PM (#17545839)
Haven’t the drives been soldered on board for quite a few years now? At least since the 2016 redesign, right?
Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by prh8 on Monday July 16, 2018 @08:07PM (#17546246)
Yes, but I still see people asking if there's user replaceable RAM in these things too.
Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by BugsJustFindMe on Monday July 16, 2018 @09:25PM (#17546593)
Not in all models. The non-touchbar 2017 13" had an upgradeable ssd.
Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by abrowne on Monday July 16, 2018 @09:58PM (#17546725)
If you can find something to upgrade it with!
Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by BugsJustFindMe on Monday July 16, 2018 @11:29PM (#17547076)
Well, yes, there's that. I assume you'd have to get one pulled from a busted machine on eBay.
Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by abrowne on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @09:49PM (#17555029)
Which caps your upgrade at whatever largest size Apple ever sold, which you may already have.
Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by samcat116 on Monday July 16, 2018 @10:04PM (#17546752)
This isn't really true. Its a very non standard form factor, and I doubt you'll be able to find a third party version for many years, if ever.
Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by zitterbewegung on Monday July 16, 2018 @06:53PM (#17545871)
The T2 chip now has the SSD controller on die so its probably the consolidation of that and other features that make this happen. See https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208862
Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by nsxwolf on Monday July 16, 2018 @07:00PM (#17545904)
I was frustrated when I learned the 2013 Mac Pro didn't have upgradeable SSDs... not because they aren't removable, but because they're proprietary and Apple won't sell you one. They will replace defective units with replacements of the same capacity only.
Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by extra88 on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @07:52AM (#17549014)
When the 2013 Mac Pro was introduced, their SSDs didn't use a standard connector so you couldn't buy a replacement drive but third parties then did make SSDs for the Mac Pro. What helped create the market for them was Apple used the same form factor in some laptop models.

https://www.owcdigital.com/products/aura-ssd

Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by abootstrapper on Monday July 16, 2018 @06:37PM (#17545772)
Well shit. I assumed I could upgrade my hardrive 5 years from now. External hard drive it’ll be I guess! Good thing usb-c is fast.
Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by threeseed on Monday July 16, 2018 @08:05PM (#17546231)
On a MacBook Pro they have Thunderbolt 3 ports.

Which are 4x faster than USB-C.

Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by stephenhuey on Monday July 16, 2018 @10:04PM (#17546749)
In case anyone else finds this tricky to remember, Thunderbolt 3 is a superset of USB-C.

https://thunderbolttechnology.net/blog/difference-between-us...

Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by WaxProlix on Monday July 16, 2018 @11:39PM (#17547116)
I see this claim a lot, but the fact that it's so often incompatible with USB-C peripherals gives it the lie.
Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by yjftsjthsd-h on Monday July 16, 2018 @11:51PM (#17547160)
USB-C is often incompatible with USB-C peripherals. It's not a lie, it's just a bunch of devices that all implement different parts of the spec.
Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by nomel on Monday July 16, 2018 @10:07PM (#17546764)
The Thunderbolt 3 port is still there. The USB-C is also Thubderbolt 3 on the pros.
Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by notadoc on Monday July 16, 2018 @08:46PM (#17546426)
Performance looks great but being soldered in is disappointing. It's much nicer when RAM and disk is user upgradable.
Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by mmastrac on Monday July 16, 2018 @06:34PM (#17545753)
I'm going to guess copy-on-write is 90% of what makes it fast:

"To be fair, Apple’s relatively new APFS file system is designed to speed up file copies using a technology Apple calls Instant Cloning. But a win is a win."

Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by MBCook on Monday July 16, 2018 @06:48PM (#17545837)
Copy on write should be WAY faster than that.

These numbers are similar to the iMac Pro, which uses a similar setup (T2, multiple flash chips).

I don’t think the benchmark was dumb enough to just be ‘cp fileOne fileTwo’, they would have taken the APFS instant copy into account.

Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by vbezhenar on Monday July 16, 2018 @07:13PM (#17545970)
Why you can't upgrade? Good engineer should be able to replace those chips, it's not exactly rocket science. Or those chips just don't available in China or they are somehow paired with motherboard and different ones won't work? For example I know that you could replace disk on iPhone for some reasonable money (less than buying new iPhone with higher capacity) in China, at least that was the case few years ago.
Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by saagarjha on Monday July 16, 2018 @07:26PM (#17546052)
I believe the T2 chip is paired with the storage ones in the factory, or something like that.
Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by userbinator on Monday July 16, 2018 @08:21PM (#17546306)
You can bet the Chinese are already hard at work figuring out how to defeat Apple's DRM and provide repairs and upgrades, the way they've always done. Give it some time.
Re:MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown by dogma1138 on Monday July 16, 2018 @07:24PM (#17546038)
you’ll need to replace the NAND and the controller so good luck with that.