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Re:Why Use OpenStreetMap Instead of Google Maps? by tehabe on Saturday July 14, 2018 @03:13PM (#17531856)
What I would love to see in OpenStreetMaps are translated or transcripted place names. And since place names are extremely political, this should also be mentioned that a place has several names in different languages and cultures.
Re:Why Use OpenStreetMap Instead of Google Maps? by Doctor_Fegg on Saturday July 14, 2018 @03:15PM (#17531864)
Re:Why Use OpenStreetMap Instead of Google Maps? by timthorn on Saturday July 14, 2018 @03:16PM (#17531873)
That exists. This blog post explains how to add Welsh names: http://cardiff.theodi.org/2018/02/23/mapio-eich-milltir-sgwa...
Re:Why Use OpenStreetMap Instead of Google Maps? by maxerickson on Saturday July 14, 2018 @03:55PM (#17532034)
There's quite some resistance to adding translations and transcriptions, as they aren't really names as such.

An example would be small towns in the US. They probably don't have a Welsh name, even if there happens to be a direct translation into Welsh.

Re:Why Use OpenStreetMap Instead of Google Maps? by pbhjpbhj on Saturday July 14, 2018 @04:27PM (#17532205)
Cymraeg users often have a strong hatred of English language use, and users, and want to deny that Welsh counties were annexed in to England and want to try and hold back the tide wrt English language use in preference to Cymraeg.

We get silly things in Wales like Cymraeg mono-lingual government announcements/adverts on the radio (accessible to about 7% [1] of the population vs c.100% if they were in English), motorway signs that are only in Cwmraeg for half the people passing them (they change over, useless if you passed already), travel announcements in Cymraeg first. Heck, if you ring 999 in an emergency you have to wait for the Cymraeg speaker to finish their 20s message before you start your call.

Welsh people use British-English language predominantly; the Welsh name is the name in English, the Cymraeg name sometimes differs.

[1] roughly: ~15% of the adult population say they know any Cymraeg, half of those are fluent (self reported). FWIW half of those fluent say they prefer to use English. So one could argue you're catering to <4% of the population.

Re:Why Use OpenStreetMap Instead of Google Maps? by gerdesj on Saturday July 14, 2018 @05:20PM (#17532440)
Cymraeg users often have a strong hatred of English language use, and users,

Not my experience (English - Somerset based - with quite a lot of work and friends the other side of the bridges). If you show some respect towards others, I generally find it returned. They are also not users but speakers. The only time I find dual language to be a bit of a pain is in lifts: being told the doors are closing in two languages is bloody stupid.

and want to deny that Welsh counties were annexed in to England and want to try and hold back the tide wrt English language use in preference to Cymraeg.

You might want to reread your history books and concentrate around 1066. The Norsemen didn't really give a shit whether you were "welsh" or "english" (neither of which, as we now know them, really existed as such at the time). You were probably a vassel, whatever language you spoke. I can't remember or even be bothered to look up when the concept of county was created. I think we still had hides and hundreds back then.

Re:Why Use OpenStreetMap Instead of Google Maps? by pbhjpbhj on Sunday July 15, 2018 @02:39PM (#17536401)
Harold put a vassal in place in Gwynedd in 1063. But IIRC they were already ruling and had originally taken Gwynedd by force with an Irish & Danish army.

Re counties, there were established principalities in the West of the British mainland -- Gwynedd managed to subdue many of these other counties (ie independently governed areas), whilst paying fealty/homage to the English Crown, once Gwynedd had subdued Deheubarth and Powys and such, they (Llewellyn The Last) stopped paying the Crown. At which point Gwynedd was put down, handing their recent won territories over to be annexed to the "English" King's territories (Edward I).

I don't think the Welsh counties in general were divided in to hundreds until Henry Tudor (who also issued a writ demanding use of English across his whole territory). Hides and hundreds, like the words, are Anglo-Saxon I think?

AFAICT Gwynedd grew strong (post-Romans) by earlier conquest by Vikings and Irish-Scots.

You're right, the Norse, like the Romans before them didn't care what tribe you hung with, Wales is called that because it's the bit the Romans hadn't conquered yet (cf Walloons, Wallachia (? in Romania)); which is down to physical geography. Same with the Norse AFAICT. And the same in the other direction with why Gwynedd was able to conquer the principalities but not subdue the Marches or Pembrokeshire.

Re:Why Use OpenStreetMap Instead of Google Maps? by _emacsomancer_ on Saturday July 14, 2018 @07:07PM (#17532871)
'A county is a geographical region of a country used for administrative or other purposes, in certain modern nations. The term is derived from the Old French conté or cunté denoting a jurisdiction under the sovereignty of a count (earl) or a viscount...When the Normans conquered England, they brought the term [county] with them. The Saxons had already established the districts that became the historic counties of England, calling them shires; many county names derive from the name of the county town (county seat) with the word "shire" added on: for example, Gloucestershire and Worcestershire.' [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County ]
Re:Why Use OpenStreetMap Instead of Google Maps? by rjsw on Saturday July 14, 2018 @06:47PM (#17532806)
I found one phone box where the instructions on how to call emergency services were only in Welsh, it was in a major tourist area too.
Re:Why Use OpenStreetMap Instead of Google Maps? by Symbiote on Sunday July 15, 2018 @03:57AM (#17534274)
112 works in all of the EU, many other countries, and on all GSM phones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/112_(emergency_telephone_numbe...

Re:Why Use OpenStreetMap Instead of Google Maps? by Piskvorrr on Monday July 16, 2018 @03:02AM (#17539304)
Well, that could change as of next year, when the Isles get their splendid isolation back.
Re:Why Use OpenStreetMap Instead of Google Maps? by kxkfkkf on Saturday July 14, 2018 @11:01PM (#17533586)
Then dont add a translation for a small town and you have 0 problems.
Re:Why Use OpenStreetMap Instead of Google Maps? by Piskvorrr on Monday July 16, 2018 @03:09AM (#17539334)
That would work. If this were a task of some central authority, and not literally anyone who happens to come by with Maps.Me installed. (Adding translations becomes a lesser problem, compared with "I know, I'll replace the local names with my mistranslations and personal scribbles like 'I left my car here'."

Surprisingly, even discounting this, the crowdsourced POIs are quite accurate.)

Re:Why Use OpenStreetMap Instead of Google Maps? by pbhjpbhj on Saturday July 14, 2018 @04:13PM (#17532123)
I don't really understand the approach to names which takes them and translates them: Pen-Y-Bont and Bridge-end are translations, but the name is one or the other. Transliteration seems fine to me, Caerdydd <=> Cardiff, but we shouldn't say it's "name" in English is Diffcastle (or perhaps Taffcastle if you take an etymological approach).

/rant

Re:Why Use OpenStreetMap Instead of Google Maps? by DanBC on Saturday July 14, 2018 @04:34PM (#17532240)
What do you call Germany? Germany, or Deutschland? Why is the one you use more correct than the other?
Re:Why Use OpenStreetMap Instead of Google Maps? by Piskvorrr on Monday July 16, 2018 @03:13AM (#17539350)
Yes.

In other words, both are correct. Choosing the one that's appropriate in a specific context...is a tricky problem.

Re:Why Use OpenStreetMap Instead of Google Maps? by dominotw on Saturday July 14, 2018 @05:05PM (#17532380)
Germany is more correct because they write " made in Germany" on German products.
Re:Why Use OpenStreetMap Instead of Google Maps? by JetSpiegel on Saturday July 14, 2018 @07:52PM (#17532995)
But that was mandated by the British because the zeitgeist was that German products were shoddy crap.
Re:Why Use OpenStreetMap Instead of Google Maps? by kalleboo on Sunday July 15, 2018 @07:12AM (#17534723)
So since the Japanese write 日本製 on their products you agree all maps should write it 日本 then?
Re:Why Use OpenStreetMap Instead of Google Maps? by dominotw on Sunday July 15, 2018 @10:27AM (#17535370)
I bought a zojirushi rice cooker last year, It said 'made in Japan'. Not quite sure what those characters are in your comment or what you are trying to say.
Re:Why Use OpenStreetMap Instead of Google Maps? by lucb1e on Saturday July 14, 2018 @05:33PM (#17532501)
I simply wouldn't be able to remember or refer to Russia if it was always called Русский, but I do agree that we shouldn't translate as much as we do. Be it names in translated books, cities, countries, software... For example, the number of translations for a small city in Belgium called Liège/Lüttich/Luik is just confusing, and it's not even a popular tourist destination (everyone drives through it on their way south, but nobody goes there because it looks very ugly when you only drive through it on the highway).
Re:Why Use OpenStreetMap Instead of Google Maps? by Freak_NL on Sunday July 15, 2018 @04:55AM (#17534428)
It's a fair-sized city (population of 200000) in the French-speaking part of Belgium near the Dutch-speaking part, with historical ties to the German language. Of course it is known in all three languages. And as with all cities of some importance on OpenStreetMap, its entry includes the names it is known by in a variety of languages. These aren't shown by default, but they can be used to search for in ones native language.

> because it looks very ugly when you only drive through it on the highway

A lot of places look ugly if you stay on the highway.

Your attitude pegs you as a fellow Dutchman holding the classic but outdated, tiresome, and condescending view of that city that you only pass it on your way to France for the holidays. But do stop there some time, the past decade has been kind to it (the modern train station is beautiful). Keep in mind that this is a large city in an area dominated by the coal industry for the better part of the twentieth century.

Re:Why Use OpenStreetMap Instead of Google Maps? by ianleighton on Sunday July 15, 2018 @07:16AM (#17534733)
...granted my partner (who comes from near Liège and studied there) also doesn’t like it because it is pretty grey, but so is most of Belgium. I find the mix of old and postwar architecture quite beautiful and there is lots of cool stuff going on now; it’s like an edgier, more “Brooklyn” alternative to Maastricht.

What I find interesting is that the road signs in the Netherlands say Liège whereas in the few km of Vlaanderen on the way there, they insist on Luik. But this is what makes Belgium, Belgium.

Re:Why Use OpenStreetMap Instead of Google Maps? by anticensor on Sunday July 15, 2018 @03:35AM (#17534203)
Russia is Россия in Russian.
Re:Why Use OpenStreetMap Instead of Google Maps? by lucb1e on Sunday July 15, 2018 @07:47AM (#17534820)
Ah, copied the wrong string from Wikipedia it seems.