News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage by cmurf on Saturday July 14, 2018 @12:55PM (#17531097)
A family member describes to me the love affair of the automobile ~65 years ago did this. It became so ingrained in the culture, intentionally designing cities around the car so that you could drive more. Americans loved showing off cars, they loved driving them. Teenage boys' psyche used it as a way to get out of the house, away from their parents (this is city life in middle America during and post-WWII) in particular as men came home from the war, and women weren't doing as much factory work. Kids wanted out of the house all day long. Cars were many things to people but it was the hyped technology of that era and making everything bigger, including all the available infrastructure was a "good thing". You'd see gas stations on every corner.

Another family member of that same era to this day says "rip out the trees, rip out the bike lanes, put in more lanes to deal with this god awful traffic!" Driving is a right. It is not a privilege. Again, it's that ingrained in the culture, and the belief system.

One of those family members gets that cars are on the way out and other things need to replace it for the sake of the planet and human sanity. As much as it was induced sanity in the beginning, it's now a source of individual and public planning stress. The other family member has zero interest in accommodating anything but more cars.

This still manifests in how Americans get driver's licenses: states issue them, and the testing is pretty much a disqualification test not a qualification test; by that I mean it's not so much up to you to prove you're a safe driver but for the test to prove you're not. And boom you get a license. Literally no experience required, no driver's education required. Your uncle can teach you how to drive. It might be 2018 but it's the wild west and cowboys still exist here!

Re:American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage by ghaff on Saturday July 14, 2018 @01:38PM (#17531327)
>Literally no experience required, no driver's education required. Your uncle can teach you how to drive.

Driver's ed at least used to be pretty common,in part because it gave a discount for the (expensive) insurance covering younger drivers. I don't see anything special about the typical driver's ed instructor anyway. It's not like the typical driver's ed is some expensive defensive driving course taught by an ex race car driver.

Furthermore, the typical system is that someone gets a learners permit first which lets them drive only under a limited set of conditions so they gain experience that way.

And, honestly, you gain experience by doing things not taking classes.

Re:American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage by mjevans on Saturday July 14, 2018 @02:29PM (#17531605)
The important thing about driver's ed is that it's a /professional/ teaching the foundational experience (they also typically use a custom car where the instructor has limited controls in the passenger's seat in case things are going really wrong).

That way you try to bring the quality of drivers up to that of the instructor, not a cargo cult of family members who might be horrid at driving.

Re:American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage by astura on Saturday July 14, 2018 @05:30PM (#17532491)
And the big thing is dangerous misinformation and misconceptions get passed down without professional instruction - you see it all the time.
Re:American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage by wool_gather on Saturday July 14, 2018 @02:14PM (#17531528)
> you gain experience by doing things not taking classes.

Sure, but "experience" doesn't have to mean you're out there on the highway with everyone else. You don't start scuba diving in the actual ocean. You get experience in a pool for a while first.

Re:American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage by sverige on Saturday July 14, 2018 @04:32PM (#17532229)
> It's not like the typical driver's ed is some expensive defensive driving course taught by an ex race car driver.

This is a common misunderstanding of what is really needed in driver education to improve the average driver. The average American driver really lacks a lot of skills and a clear understanding of optimal driving behavior. Driving on public roads should be optimized for safety, but most drive as if it ought to be optimized for speed.

It would be a good improvement if all drivers were required to take a Smith system or similar defensive driving course annually in order to retain their license.

Re:American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage by cmurf on Saturday July 14, 2018 @02:46PM (#17531712)
You learn bad habits by doing things incorrectly over and and over again too. As a pilot, the rigorousness of aeronautical training compared to the complete lack of training requirement for car driving, is ridiculous to me. The point is you have to learn how to fit into a system, because it's a shared system.

But somehow driving, and the daily experience of it is: fuck you, me first. And it shows. It's an adversarial system. I'm really impressed that it works as well as it does, despite being the #1 killer of teenagers, and 40,000 total deaths on the road per year.

Re:American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage by ghaff on Saturday July 14, 2018 @04:38PM (#17532250)
I don't totally disagree with you but people have to work within practical realities. In this case, western countries have pretty much decided that being allowed to drive on public roads so long as you can reach the gas pedal is probably a bit too free and easy. On the other hand, requiring the sort of significant time and financial commitment required to get and maintain a pilot's license--together with medical exams, etc.--isn't realistic to require for something that many people effectively need to be able to function in society.

So you end up with the current system which is fairly similar across states and countries with somewhat greater or lesser rigor depending on the particular place.

Re:American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage by dsnuh on Saturday July 14, 2018 @01:13PM (#17531193)
I'm not familiar with licensing requirements in other countries, are they more rigorous?
Re:American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage by jdietrich on Saturday July 14, 2018 @02:46PM (#17531710)
Here in the UK, you need to take a multiple-choice theory test and a practical driving test. The practical test takes about 40 minutes and is conducted on public roads. The pass rate for both the theory and practical test is about 50%. It's not uncommon for learners to fail the practical test several times. You're not required to have professional instruction but the vast majority of people do, because it's extremely difficult to pass the driving test without it. Most instructors recommend 30 to 40 hours of tuition before attempting the test.

Learners who are driving on a provisional license prior to passing their test must be accompanied by someone who has held a full license for at least three years. They must display an L-plate on the front and rear of the vehicle and cannot use motorways (freeways) unless they are accompanied by a licensed instructor.

It is my understanding that the British process is relatively straightforward by European standards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_licence_in_the_United_...

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

Re:American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage by dsnuh on Saturday July 14, 2018 @04:00PM (#17532061)
That doesn't sound all that different from requirements in CA, save the special license plate tags.
Re:American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage by brohee on Saturday July 14, 2018 @03:42PM (#17531982)
Basically the same thing in France.