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Re:I don’t know how to create a website by onion2k on Monday July 09, 2018 @04:19AM (#17488713)
While the author implies that making a website is an overly complex, daunting process and things used to be so much better in the past, the key phrase in the article is this;

The tech I know may no longer be suited to do the things I want...

The old tech that the author knows doesn't work for the modern web. He says as much. If you want to build the new shiny you have to use the new shiny tools. You don't have to make a website that does all the fancy reactive, responsive, Web 3.0 stuff. You can make a site exactly how we did it 20 years ago today and it'll work fine. But if you want to build a modern website, you've got a giant pile of things to learn first.

Re:I don’t know how to create a website by crooked-v on Monday July 09, 2018 @04:51AM (#17488822)
My personal recommndation for "modern" would be Next.js. It abstracts away all the surrounding "stuff" and lets you skip to just directly defining pages as React components, which gives you a complexity baseline that's only slightly above just writing HTML directly.
Re:I don’t know how to create a website by Rjevski on Monday July 09, 2018 @05:00AM (#17488864)
My personal recommendation would be to stay away from anything that ends in ".js" and do it the good old way with HTML & CSS.

No customer ever asked for React, or Angular, etc. I have never heard someone say "I wanted to buy your product/service but I'm not going to because you use boring HTML instead of React".

Use the good old proven stuff until you can't, and then look at your options. There are scenarios where using React/Angular/etc makes sense. But for 99% of websites, it doesn't, especially if your website is a way to showcase content/goods instead of being an application itself.

Re:I don’t know how to create a website by guitarbill on Monday July 09, 2018 @05:05AM (#17488887)
Agreed. Whatever happened to progressive enhancement or graceful degradation? Many a website and user experience is not enhanced by using Javascript at all.
Re:I don’t know how to create a website by Rjevski on Monday July 09, 2018 @05:10AM (#17488917)
Not only is a lot of Javascript useless, but it actually degrades the user experience.

The "new" Reddit completely kills my 12-inch MacBook when I load a page, and it still feels sluggish afterwards. That pile of garbage literally loads more code than content.

YouTube's crap navigation system is the same - if you click on a video it will actually load it & update the page within the client using JS, and in my case it's considerably slower than just loading the server-generated page from scratch. I often find myself opening videos in new tabs (and closing the old ones) or hitting refresh as soon as the URL bar is updated just to avoid this shit because fetching & loading a brand new page is actually faster than their so-called "improvement".

Re:I don’t know how to create a website by pjmlp on Monday July 09, 2018 @05:24AM (#17488963)
I really hate the new Youtube experience, taking several seconds to display a full page.
Re:I don’t know how to create a website by mdewar on Monday July 09, 2018 @05:39AM (#17489043)
It seems the main slow down that users are experiencing on new reddit is due to two reasons. 1. Number of components 2. CSS-in-JS

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/redesign/comments/8smbob/an_update_...

Re:I don’t know how to create a website by LarryL on Monday July 09, 2018 @05:56AM (#17489103)
Not to mention that MANY (too many!) websites don't display anything AT ALL, if you don't have Javascript enabled.

Why?

I'm not talking about "app"-like sites (like Gmail), where it -somewhat- makes sense to use Javascript, but blogs or information sites (i.e. text + images).

The worst is that when you look at the domains to unblock, you often get dozens (not counting the Ads networks that I have already marked as untrusted)! This is crazy, a pretty simple page should NOT require all that complex (and slow) architecture.

And don't get me started about the comments sections! Not only do they usually require Javascript to see anything (which is stupid since just reading them should not require it), but ALL their UIs seem to compete for the title of "most aggravating interface ever". They always seem to try their hardest to be slow, confusing, and once you get more than a few dozen messages on the page (as they load on demand), they become simply so difficult to use that it's a chore then a torture to try to reach the last (or first) one.

I could also rant about the loss of bookmarking functionalities (because of infinite scrolling for instance), and of the previous/forward browsers' buttons...

In summary: in many cases, if not most, Javascript is used in a way that kills the user experience instead of enhancing it. And I don't see things getting any better, quite the opposite.

Re:I don’t know how to create a website by Klover on Monday July 09, 2018 @07:04AM (#17489360)
The HTML version of Gmail works just fine without javascript. Which is funny because that's a webapp and the simple page websites that don't work could simply be a Word document usually.

https://support.google.com/mail/answer/15049

Re:I don’t know how to create a website by pjmlp on Monday July 09, 2018 @05:23AM (#17488959)
The majority of web development that I do still makes mostly use of server side rendering in Java and .NET frameworks, with the minimum JavaScript required for some dynamic behaviors.

Works pretty well.

On the .NET front MS is even bringing back a saner script management for Web devs.

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/webdev/2018/04/17/library-m...

Re:I don’t know how to create a website by Hroble on Monday July 09, 2018 @05:39AM (#17489046)
I have a story about a team that did this. They built an app using "good old" stuff and spaghetti features into it until it's impossible to add anything more, then spent a year rewriting everything in angular just so they could continue working on the product. It was probably not only a problem of a tech stack, but if you know that you need an SPA that is going to need to scale and have more components, it's only a waste of time to try to do it with vanillajs/css/html imo.
Re:I don’t know how to create a website by Rjevski on Monday July 09, 2018 @07:22AM (#17489419)
> if you know that you need an SPA

The problem is that every site out there thinks they need one while in fact only 1% truly needs one.

Re:I don’t know how to create a website by kowdermeister on Monday July 09, 2018 @06:01AM (#17489126)
That's true for prototypes, 3 view web apps and simple stuff like that, but if you are building something more complex that you have to maintain for years with a team, then you better have some battle tested scaffolding.
Re:I don’t know how to create a website by onion2k on Monday July 09, 2018 @09:39AM (#17490048)
No customer ever asked for React, or Angular, etc.

Loads of mine have, but I write things for other software companies.

Re:I don’t know how to create a website by OutThisLife on Monday July 09, 2018 @04:54AM (#17488840)
Next.js is amazing. Hopefully someone smart enough makes it in rust.
Re:I don’t know how to create a website by s3m4j on Monday July 09, 2018 @05:07AM (#17488903)
wat
Re:I don’t know how to create a website by hexadecimal7e on Monday July 09, 2018 @05:38AM (#17489038)
My personal recommendation is to adhere to KISS (keep it simple ####) and less is more.

If someone want to learn to do a simple website I recommend Grav CMS. No database, just edit your pages with markdown and off you go.