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Re:Say Hello to Full Employment by exclusiv on Friday July 06, 2018 @01:32PM (#17473362)
Agreed. Wage growth has been non-existant for a long time. Every administration is basically like "hey we're doing great - look at these unemployment numbers" and then you talk to people and they're saying the opposite. Savings is atrocious too. Some of that is people being bad with money but a lot is that the lack of wage growth and rising expenses on things like healthcare, education and home ownership makes it hard for them to save.

60% of Americans can't afford a $500 unplanned expense [1]. That alone forces many to take crappy job(s) to just stay afloat.

[1] http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/12/pf/americans-lack-of-savings...

Re:Say Hello to Full Employment by mgkimsal on Friday July 06, 2018 @01:42PM (#17473470)
this comes up a lot, and I can never find the actual questions that get asked on these surveys. do they mean an actual savings account at a bank? the kind that pay 0.02% interest? few people I know, even with high net worth and liquidity, have much of anything in a 'savings account'. But... "Only 41% of adults reported having enough in their savings account".

Do they just mean 'savings'? Or liquid cash? I can never find the actual text of the questions asked, and any clarifications on this point, although I see pop media references to these sorts of surveys regularly

Re:Say Hello to Full Employment by wgerard on Friday July 06, 2018 @01:48PM (#17473527)
> few people I know, even with high net worth and liquidity, have much of anything in a 'savings account'

Really? It's fairly common advice to store an emergency fund in something akin to a savings account (or at least something with FDIC backing). Either way, it seems bizarre for a high net worth individual not to have at least $500 in something extremely liquid like a checking/savings account.

Either way, it's fair to assume it means liquid cash, since the question is basically "could you afford an unexpected $500 expense?".

If you want to take that study to task, I think the far more interesting statistic is the 20% who would put it on their credit card: While those could be people who are just going into debt to afford the bill, it could also be people who just pay their card off in full every month and want whatever rewards they might be entitled to from using the credit card.

Re:Say Hello to Full Employment by ryandrake on Friday July 06, 2018 @01:56PM (#17473601)
> Really? It's fairly common advice to store an emergency fund in something akin to a savings account (or at least something with FDIC backing)

That’s where I have my emergency fund (earning nearly zero interest of course). If OP knows of some other type of account with enough liquidity to use as an emergency fund AND generates significant interest, you have my full attention!

Re:Say Hello to Full Employment by tbirdz on Friday July 06, 2018 @02:12PM (#17473763)
Check out online banks. My Ally Bank savings account offers 1.75% interest. Another option could be a CD ladder.

Some banks, like Ally, also offer a "no penalty" CD, which has lower interest rates than a regular CD, but you can pull your money out at any time without paying a penalty, like you would on a regular CD.

Re:Say Hello to Full Employment by lazide on Friday July 06, 2018 @02:14PM (#17473780)
allybank, capital one savings, personalsavings.americanexpress.com, and some others all offer >= 1% interest now. Some are >= 2% that I've run across. Still lower than inflation, but better than .001%

Increased fed fund rates and tapering off QE has been having effects. Retail customers generally are unaware of this, so retail banks are still able to not pay any actual interest.

A lot of the weirdness in the market (from Tesla to GE and others) is due to increased returns from 'safe' investments causing easy money for risky ventures to start to dry up. Expect failures as companies built on nearly free money start having to pay up or fold. Some will survive, many won't.

Re:Say Hello to Full Employment by HillaryBriss on Friday July 06, 2018 @03:50PM (#17474572)
Some will survive, many won't.

how precarious is it? any thoughts/guesstimates on the percentage that will fail because of higher rates?

Re:Say Hello to Full Employment by lazide on Friday July 06, 2018 @07:51PM (#17476002)
The Fed had a good graph on the sky high amount of debts many companies are laying on, but I'm having a hard time finding it right now. A bunch of outlets have written on it, here is the first one I found http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/26/investing/corporate-debt-ris...

As to how many will fail is anyone's guess. Retail has already started to have a reaping (with help from Amazon). If a trade war kicks off price increases for goods from China, that probably won't help a lot of them.

Sub-prime auto market is not doing well either, that should hurt auto manufacturer numbers, but nothing crazy there at the moment.

I think everyone is still trying to guess.

Re:Say Hello to Full Employment by pmiller2 on Friday July 06, 2018 @02:21PM (#17473861)
Which options over 2% APY do you know of?
Re:Say Hello to Full Employment by lazide on Friday July 06, 2018 @07:49PM (#17475993)
Looks like I was wrong (the >= 2% were CDs) - Marcus.com (Goldman Sachs side bank) is currently offering 1.8% though, so not far off.

https://www.marcus.com/us/en/savings/high-yield-savings

Re:Say Hello to Full Employment by jbronn on Friday July 06, 2018 @03:02PM (#17474213)
Money market funds have significant yield compared to banks; the Vanguard Federal Money Market Fund (VMFXX) has a current yield of 1.81% and is used as default settlement account on Vanguard brokerage accounts (easy to transfer in and out from).

If you can hold off on needing the funds for a year, then US I-Bonds can be purchased from TreasuryDirect. I-bond rates are adjusted semi-annually so they always yield more than inflation and currently at 2.52%. Treasury T-bills can be purchased in 4, 8, 13, 26, and 52-week terms. Current rate for 4-week bills is around 1.89%.

Re:Say Hello to Full Employment by ryandrake on Friday July 06, 2018 @03:18PM (#17474319)
Thanks jbronn and sibling commenters. Lots to look into. I have the e-fund in my local credit union's money market and always just assumed that would be the best I could get. I-bonds seem to be a good compromise for non-emergency savings that don't have to be liquid.
Re:Say Hello to Full Employment by pmiller2 on Friday July 06, 2018 @02:20PM (#17473852)
Search out checking accounts from local credit unions. Mine pays around 2% APY on balances up to $25k with some very minimal requirements. I have $5 in my savings account there because I have to in order to maintain my membership, but I have ~5 months expenses in my checking.

Obviously, this might not work as a single solution if your monthly expenses are much higher than mine, but it could still be a decent supplement.

Re:Say Hello to Full Employment by mgkimsal on Friday July 06, 2018 @05:23PM (#17475242)
> in something extremely liquid like a checking/savings account.

I was asking specifically if the surveys mean actual "savings" account, which often have some restrictions on them ("Make a total of 6 transfers and withdrawals each monthly statement cycle with no Withdrawal Limit Fee"). If you're getting a grand total of 0.01% interest, there's not much reason to also restrict activity as well.

That said, I realize I do have a 'savings' account, via an online-only bank, getting about 50x what my local bank's savings account rate is. I just didn't think of it as a 'savings' account as I'm so accustomed to thinking of 'savings acct'='brick and mortar location'.

Re:Say Hello to Full Employment by jandrewrogers on Friday July 06, 2018 @04:05PM (#17474681)
Yes, they literally mean "savings account", which is an anachronism. Most people I know leave their money in a checking account instead, since the interest rates are comparable for all practical purposes (most people do not expend effort to chase twenty extra dollars in interest per year).

Given that the median American household has $1000/month in discretionary income -- money they can spend on beer or savings -- it wouldn't make sense that 60% of Americans don't have $500 to cover an emergency. Unless it was defined as cash in a "savings account", which most people (myself included) don't use.

Re:Say Hello to Full Employment by mgkimsal on Friday July 06, 2018 @05:26PM (#17475263)
yeah, thanks. it's a weird old-fashioned thing, although, as I replied to someone else, I realized I do have a 'savings account', in one of those fancy new online banks, paying ~50x what my local brick and mortar pays. It's such a weird situation, because... if they even paid something like .7% or 1%, I wouldn't have bothered to move money out. Slowly, I will probably just stop using them when all new activity is done online, but I'm a child of B&M banks, and breaking the connection 100% is hard to do.
Re:Say Hello to Full Employment by SketchySeaBeast on Friday July 06, 2018 @01:45PM (#17473512)
They go on to mention that they'd have to put it on credit card, or ask friends, so while the article says savings account I don't think they are that literal. But you're right, it's a flaw in the language.
Re:Say Hello to Full Employment by pitaj on Friday July 06, 2018 @06:32PM (#17475635)
Most people could absorb a sub-$1000 emergency expense with a credit card, not a savings account.
[dead]
Re:Say Hello to Full Employment by SketchySeaBeast on Friday July 06, 2018 @01:59PM (#17473637)
Saving that $300 a year at a highly unlikely 10% interest ends up being $36k after 25 years. It's not solving any problems. To even save up that $500 minimum would take 2 years. We can't just blame it on a single straw-man.
Re:Say Hello to Full Employment by hnlurker on Friday July 06, 2018 @03:48PM (#17474557)
I was just responding to the often cited claim that average Americans would be devastated by an unexpected $500 expense. They're spending $300+ on lottery tickets, and yet can't cover a $500 expense. It seems a rather simple solution to me.. don't throw away your money on lottery tickets.
Re:Say Hello to Full Employment by lovich on Friday July 06, 2018 @10:59PM (#17476704)
500>300 so it's not really gonna help without a multi year plan. That would be an ideal move if humans were emotionless automatons but that point people need some amount of entertainment or hope to keep on going day after day. If you took away everyone's vices _and_ subjected them to the reality of life as an average American you'd have riots on your hands
Re:Say Hello to Full Employment by ChrisLomont on Friday July 06, 2018 @01:58PM (#17473625)
>Wage growth has been non-existant for a long time

Wages grew at the fast rate on record in 2015. [1] Nearby years are similar.

Here's FRED real median household income [2]. Real wages have been growing for several years.

[2] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/09/13/the-m...

Re:Say Hello to Full Employment by pmiller2 on Friday July 06, 2018 @02:29PM (#17473947)
Look at the MAX chart on your link [2]. We’re barely above where we were in 1998. Hell, look here: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-wor...

Real wages have been stagnant since the mid 60s. The short term picture is most likely a blip.

Re:Say Hello to Full Employment by ChrisLomont on Saturday July 07, 2018 @10:20AM (#17478565)
>Real wages have been stagnant since the mid 60s.

Most people working today were not working in the 1960s. They have seen their wages grow. Also as working demographics skew younger as boomers retire, the median worker is earlier in their career, so they earn less, making it look like wages are lower, yet for each person wages have increased. The higher paid cohort is retiring.

All this is covered in Census reports.

Re:Say Hello to Full Employment by pmiller2 on Saturday July 07, 2018 @07:21PM (#17481236)
Not true. Wages have been flat over the entire period from 1964 onwards. Individuals may experience wage growth through job changes and raises, but that doesn’t change the fact that overall real wages are stagnant. You can’t cherry pick the last 3 years of a 50-year trend and say it’s all good.
Re:Say Hello to Full Employment by ChrisLomont on Sunday July 08, 2018 @08:50AM (#17483524)
I never said it's all good. I said there has been real wage growth the past few years, with the highest year over year gain on record in 2014.

And again, most workers were not working 50 years ago. Many have seen real wage growth in their working lifetime.

You're still ignoring that there has been demographic changes also over the past 50 years. At the start of that many people didn't work, and were not counted in median wages. They were not looking for work and were not in the workforce. Since 1960 women and minorities entered the workforce in mass. Both of those groups have seen tremendous wage growth over the past 50 years.

So simply taking the median as you do, ignoring changes in the age and make up of the workforce, you miss a lot of gains.

You also ignore that total compensation, as measured by BLS stats, has increased far faster than wage growth. Currently wages only make up about 70% of total compensation [1]. Healthcare costs borne by employer are the simplest one to recognize - 50 years ago employers didn't pay much and costs were low. As healthcare costs increased, cost to employer increased far faster than wages, but this is still a benefit to the employee.

You also ignore that total cost to employ, again as measured by BLS has increased, due to regulations (many good) passing costs onto employer, things that also benefit workers. There has been significant federal legislation passed in the past 50 years that benefit workers, at a cost to employers. This cost results in benefits to workers but at a reduced wage.

BLS tracks all this in various indices.

So, if you simply look at median wage, ignore demographics, ignore increased benefits, ignore regulatory costs that benefit workers, then sure, things are not magically increasing. But all those other things are benefits to workers that do not show up in median wages. Adding them in gives a pretty big increase in total benefits to workers over the past 50 years.

So if you really want to argue more than I initially wrote, then let's do. But at least don't ignore factors counter to the narrative you want to spread.

You want to argue something else than what I posted.

[1] https://www.bls.gov/news.release/ecec.nr0.htm