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Re:Toward a Mature Science of Consciousness by lisper on Tuesday June 26, 2018 @12:19PM (#17401856)
To you, obviously. That's kind of the point: your own consciousness isn't really what you think it is. Yes, I know that sounds really weird to the point of being a logical impossibility, but trust me: there's experimental data to back it up.
Re:Toward a Mature Science of Consciousness by kolpa on Tuesday June 26, 2018 @06:41PM (#17404544)
What is "you"? That's the question of consciousness. Sure, maybe you entire internal and sensory existence is a play that your mind is watching. It's well known that a robot can be built to measure your decisions before you are aware that you mean. That doesn't answer the core question: What is the "you" that is aware of (the rest of your brain's) decisions, that is observing your thought process?
Re:Toward a Mature Science of Consciousness by lisper on Tuesday June 26, 2018 @09:12PM (#17405131)
> What is "you"?

You is the thing (or, more accurately, the process) that is conducting this conversation.

> What is the "you" that is aware of (the rest of your brain's) decisions, that is observing your thought process?

But that is the whole point: you aren't actually aware of the rest of your brain's decisions. You think you are, but you're wrong. That is Dennett's thesis.

Re:Toward a Mature Science of Consciousness by throwaway37585 on Tuesday June 26, 2018 @02:18PM (#17402874)
> there's experimental data to back it up

To back what up, exactly?

Re:Toward a Mature Science of Consciousness by lisper on Tuesday June 26, 2018 @03:02PM (#17403195)
Dennett's thesis.
Re:Toward a Mature Science of Consciousness by throwaway37585 on Tuesday June 26, 2018 @07:02PM (#17404647)
The thesis that there is no hard problem, or the thesis that we don't understand our own consciousness?
Re:Toward a Mature Science of Consciousness by lisper on Tuesday June 26, 2018 @09:15PM (#17405140)
If you really want to know the answer to that, read the book. Life is to short to argue with anonymous trolls.
Re:Toward a Mature Science of Consciousness by throwaway37585 on Tuesday June 26, 2018 @10:28PM (#17405373)
I ask a simple question and you call me a “troll”. Do you always get offended when someone presses you for details?
Re:Toward a Mature Science of Consciousness by arbitrage on Tuesday June 26, 2018 @12:27PM (#17401939)
"Trust me" pretty much always means "don't".
Re:Toward a Mature Science of Consciousness by lisper on Tuesday June 26, 2018 @12:30PM (#17401979)
In this case it's just a figure of speech. You don't actually have to trust me. You can read Dennett's book and see for yourself.
Re:Toward a Mature Science of Consciousness by Florin_Andrei on Tuesday June 26, 2018 @01:21PM (#17402428)
Dennett is becoming more and more part of the "old guard". Things are shifting towards other approaches. Of course, popularity doesn't necessarily mean anything, but keep that in mind when referring to him as an authority.
Re:Toward a Mature Science of Consciousness by naasking on Tuesday June 26, 2018 @02:26PM (#17402920)
> Dennett is becoming more and more part of the "old guard". Things are shifting towards other approaches.

What evidence do you have of this? In fact, the majority of practicing philosophers are actually physicalists (56.5%):

https://philpapers.org/surveys/results.pl

Re:Toward a Mature Science of Consciousness by lisper on Tuesday June 26, 2018 @01:25PM (#17402468)
I didn't refer to him as an authority. I just said his thesis resonated with me (but at 53 I guess I'm part of the "old guard" too). YMMV of course.
Re:Toward a Mature Science of Consciousness by mrfusion on Tuesday June 26, 2018 @01:25PM (#17402465)
Is there an easy read where I can get a gist of where things are shifting?
Re:Toward a Mature Science of Consciousness by Florin_Andrei on Tuesday June 26, 2018 @01:31PM (#17402525)
panpsychism
Re:Toward a Mature Science of Consciousness by skosch on Tuesday June 26, 2018 @04:16PM (#17403654)
If that's true – and I don't know if it is, even though panpsychism resonates with me personally – can you explain how panpsychism would conflict with the idea that consciousness is an illusion?

It seems like it'd be the next logical step: if consciousness is simply what (sensory) computations feel like "from the inside", then it stands to reason that other computations can also "feel like" something from the inside, regardless of the substrate they run on, no?

Re:Toward a Mature Science of Consciousness by pokemongoaway on Tuesday June 26, 2018 @02:24PM (#17402904)
Everyone without much direct experience of what consciousness is will continuously become the "old guard."
Re:Toward a Mature Science of Consciousness by Florin_Andrei on Tuesday June 26, 2018 @02:55PM (#17403148)
Everyone who is not brain dead has direct experience of what consciousness is. It's the only thing that is directly experienced, in fact. Everything else is second-hand.
Re:Toward a Mature Science of Consciousness by pokemongoaway on Thursday June 28, 2018 @06:31PM (#17421004)
Everyone who has a computer has the same level of understanding about what a computer is? Mental.
Re:Toward a Mature Science of Consciousness by Florin_Andrei on Friday June 29, 2018 @04:48PM (#17427754)
You're missing the point so badly, I'm not even sure where to begin.
Re:Toward a Mature Science of Consciousness by pokemongoaway on Saturday June 30, 2018 @11:43PM (#17433946)
And I felt the same about your comment, but I still tried my best to explain where I think you're delusional.