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Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by Analemma_ on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @01:45PM (#17348745)
Wait, am I reading this right? If you're a particularly popular channel, you're required to monetize and YT will block you if you don't?

That's ridiculous, and it's totally shooting yourself in the foot. The vast majority of creators with many views do want to monetize, YouTube is losing almost nothing by allowing people not to if they choose. They must be really be desparate for revenue over there.

Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by ajross on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @02:25PM (#17349120)
More like if you're a particularly popular channel with revenue and a budget. YouTube isn't a service for nonprofits to use to offload their bandwidth costs. If you have money to pay for your other expenses, it's not reasonable to expect this one supplier to do it for free. Morally, Google deserves some kind of reimbursement here.

Advertising is certainly one way to square that. Honestly I don't see what the big deal is here.

Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by ng12 on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @02:31PM (#17349153)
Aside from the fact that Blender is a non-profit backing a free, open-source application -- you're right. YouTube does have that right. And I have the right to think holding the dissemination of free educational material hostage to make a quick buck is reprehensible.

Also don't forget that YouTube gave them the option to not advertise on those videos. It's so arbitrarily capricious I was convinced it was a technical mishap when the news first broke.

Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by ajross on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @02:38PM (#17349203)
> Aside from the fact that Blender is a non-profit backing a free, open-source application

The Blender Foundation isn't "Blender", though. It's a financial entity with income (there's literally a giant "donate" link on their home page) and expenses. They pay for all sorts of stuff that they need (obviously I have no clue what their balance sheet looks like).

And no one whines that they don't get free conference admission or airline tickets or printer paper or whatever. Why is their video hosting any different?

Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by ng12 on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @02:40PM (#17349222)
> And no one whines that they don't get free conference admission or airline tickets or printer paper or whatever

Those are terrible analogies. YouTube offers free hosting with the ability to opt out of monetizing your videos -- features that they will apparently punish you for using. That is absurdly user-hostile.

Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by ajross on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @02:43PM (#17349246)
Meh. And we've come full circle. It seems to my eyes that they only "punish" you for not advertising if you have the means to pay other expenses but want to freeload on youtube specifically. And I don't see why I should care about that.

It's very likely that Blender is going to have the same problem with Dailymotion and Vimeo too. No one wants to (or has the means) to be a dumping ground for hosting other people's content. We all have to share in this world. As it happens advertising is the mechanism YouTube offers for sharing revenue.

Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by abnry on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @03:52PM (#17349792)
You make fair points. The biggest issue here is YouTube's recurrent communication problem. Blender and MIT Open Courseware, I am almost sure, were blindsided by this change. They would have worked out a plan ahead of time otherwise. Just like so many other Youtubers blindsided by all the new rules, so were they. That, fundamentally, is user hostile.
Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by ng12 on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @02:55PM (#17349324)
You're missing the point. Why offer the option to opt out of ads at all other than to bait-and-switch?
Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by saint_fiasco on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @03:08PM (#17349443)
Same reason a coffee shop might offer to let you charge your phone/laptop batteries for free and then take that away when they see you are running an extension cord to your office.
Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by ng12 on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @03:45PM (#17349720)
So in this analogy opting out of ads is for who, exactly? Videos nobody watches anyways?
Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by ajross on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @04:11PM (#17349929)
It's for you. And me. And any person or organization that wants to put up a video for the public to see.

But it's not for people and organizations who are being funded to put up those videos. If you are deriving revenue from that video stream, whether or not it's a "profit" legally, then it's not unreasonable for you to be expected to pay for it. Advertising with shared revenue is the standard mechanism for paying for youtube videos.

Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by ng12 on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @04:49PM (#17350194)
> If you are deriving revenue from that video stream

By opting out of ads you're also opting out of your share of the revenue so by definition you're avoiding a potential profit stream. I think you'd have a fair point if it was a publicly-listed company complaining about ads hosted for free on YouTube but come on -- these are free, educational videos hosted for the explicit purpose of democratizing knowledge.

Again, you're not wrong. YouTube is within their rights to do this. I just think it's an incredibly disappointing move from Google.

Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by ajross on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @06:06PM (#17350666)
> hosted for the explicit purpose of democratizing knowledge.

That's outrageously spun. They're Blender evangelism. Having those videos out there helps Blender get users and visibility and (here's the important part) donations, that they can then use to make Blender better by paying for stuff that Blender needs to get better.

Except for video hosting. You think they shouldn't be required to pay for video hosting the same way they are for member reimbursements. Because... I dunno, Google is evil or something.

Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by ng12 on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @06:16PM (#17350725)
> That's outrageously spun

No more outrageous than you trying to spin Blender as some corporate behemoth looking for a free pass.

Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by ubernostrum on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @11:19PM (#17352305)
Actually, tech conferences are expensive to attend, and there's been a growing movement the past few years for conferences to at least comp the ticket of someone who's scheduled to speak.
Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by ajross on Wednesday June 20, 2018 @10:15AM (#17355554)
Fair enough. But I don't see rage posts at the top of HN about how Blender can't get a free ticket at SIGGRAPH.
Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by falcolas on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @02:18PM (#17349063)
If its not monetized, then YouTube has no way to make money off the views; no way to recoup the costs associated with hosting those videos. History, morality, and good will aside, its in their financial best interest to not allow videos which are not monetized.
Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by atrus on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @03:08PM (#17349444)
Sure, but YouTube gives the option to not monetize your videos. You can't give your users and option and then be upset when some users pick that option.

If people picking that option is causing problems for your business, you take that option away.

Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by jkchu on Thursday June 21, 2018 @07:51PM (#17370153)
But isn't that what YouTube was essentially trying to do here?
Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by zelon88 on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @03:02PM (#17349388)
Then they run the risk of ostracizing creators. Creators bring viewers to YouTube. In many ways YT is like Pandora. The "product" of YouTube is other people's creativity.

YT is free to block whatever content they want for whatever reason. However, creators will follow the path of least resistance and viewers will follow creators.

Push the creators away and there will be no viewers to show ads to.

Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by UncleEntity on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @03:49PM (#17349755)
Other than using them as loss-leaders, people watch a blender foundation video then deep dive into the multitude of monetized tutorials on the YouTubes.

I'd venture to say most people learning blender will spend a significant time on YouTube, blender isn't the easiest thing to learn by a long shot.

Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by mistercow on Wednesday June 20, 2018 @12:56AM (#17352670)
That's kind of like saying it's in a restaurant's financial best interest not to give free refills. Running a profitable business is not simply a matter of directly reclaiming every dollar you spend.
Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by stcredzero on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @03:42PM (#17349704)
Wait, am I reading this right? If you're a particularly popular channel, you're required to monetize and YT will block you if you don't?

That's ridiculous, and it's totally shooting yourself in the foot.

People using power over the private YouTube platform to push political agendas through censorship crossed the "ridiculous, and it's totally shooting yourself in the foot" threshold awhile back. It's just that it's leaking into the monetization realm.

This is what happens when you let authoritarian mindsets take over your company's culture. You wind up with a company that can't keep its hands off the ecosystem it's supposedly fostering.

Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by simion314 on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @02:17PM (#17349051)
There are channels that have direct sponsors, I think sometimes the deal with the sponsor is to not monetize the video, so if I get sponsored by Intel I would have to turn off the ads in case an AMD ad would show up.

This is a speculation of mine from what I observed on some tech channels I am not familiar with YT Terms and Conditions.

If you get third party sponsors and not allow monetization is YT getting nothing? If yes then we can see what they are trying to make here.

Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by quadrangle on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @02:14PM (#17349032)
If I skipped Hanlon's Razor and jumped to assuming your speculations are right, then I'd say Google wants to head off a future where people specifically donate to those who aren't doing ad-monetizing (i.e. the only ones who actually deserve donations!!)

Google wants creators funded, but they want the system to push their ad-focused approach. The last thing Google wants is a future where the (unethical, horrible, destructive) surveillance-capitalism-ad-tech economy goes away…

Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by notriddle on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @07:36PM (#17351188)
They should set up a way for viewers to fund creators through YouTube itself instead of through a third-party crowdfunding service. That way, they can take their cut for keeping the lights on. Since they know what videos you watch, they could automatically distribute teh monies the same way they already do, but just not show you an ad.

What would be really nice, from a viewer standpoint, would be if it was done on a flat subscription rate, like Sirius XM and the BBC do it. Basically make a premium version of YouTube, but I'm sure their marketing department will try to give it a cooler, but less useful, name than YouTube Premium.

And they shouldn't freaking block videos because the creators flipped a switch. That's just stupid. If they're not willing to offer the videos without ads, then offer the videos with ads.

Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by quadrangle on Wednesday June 20, 2018 @01:41AM (#17352872)
They are happy enough to get into that world if it's part of keeping everyone on YouTube where they still get to be the dominant ad system overall.

Google's strategy as they offer patronage options will be to make it a ransom that removes ads. That way, the ads are still there for non-patrons and Google gets to keep their primary business model.

What I'm saying is that patronage should go to those who treat the public better by not showing ads to anyone. We shouldn't reward bad behavior through ransoms that make the bad stuff go away just for those who pay up.

http://mimiandeunice.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/ME_486_P...

Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by Sabinus on Wednesday June 20, 2018 @12:58AM (#17352684)
They're actually trialing this feature.

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6304294

Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by stcredzero on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @03:44PM (#17349714)
> The last thing Google wants is a future where the (unethical, horrible, destructive) surveillance-capitalism-ad-tech economy goes away…

Because the corporate culture of Google/YouTube has changed into one of authoritarian adherence. This is the natural result.

Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by vkou on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @05:01PM (#17350267)
> Because the corporate culture of Google/YouTube has changed into one of authoritarian adherence. This is the natural result.

Really? Is that what you've taken away from the Maven debate?

There's a couple simpler, far more plausible explanations.

Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by stcredzero on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @05:50PM (#17350556)
Really? Is that what you've taken away from the Maven debate?

It's a number of observations. It's only natural that a company like YouTube would seek to monetize and shift towards the mainstream. It's what they are doing with the long tail and the creative margins which is suspect.

Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by taneq on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @08:14PM (#17351369)
Yeah, I don't get it.

Publish something YT doesn't like, and we'll demonetize you!

Publish something YT likes, and... we'll force you to monetize?

Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by lostsock on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @08:48PM (#17351512)
I can't see anything in the linked contract that says YT is forcing them to monetize it. Other than one email months ago that hasn't been confirmed I see nothing to suggest this is a policy change YT have actually made.
Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by ucaetano on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @02:22PM (#17349099)
Wait, a company wants to make money on its free service?

Shocking.

Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by DanBC on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @02:35PM (#17349188)
The company could realise the goodwill generated by allowing some limited channels to run video without ads, and the badwill generated by blocking those videos.
Re:Blender is testing PeerTube after YouTube blocks their vi... by a888 on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @02:58PM (#17349358)
'free' service